Pushing back against the so-called Nordic Model of sex work

[SnugFinch]

Hi. I'm aware that my views might not be the most popular, but I am posting here in good faith.

Many of you know that Ash Regan has been campaigning to get sex work legislation in place which follows the neo-abolitionist model, or Nordic Model. This so-called Nordic Model claims that it will punish buyers of sex work, while not criminalising sellers, and that this will benefit sex workers and stop sex trafficking.

However, this is untrue. By criminalising buyers, it ensures that the only people who will buy sex are criminals who don't care about breaking the law. And because sex workers have a smaller client pool, they have no choice but to put themselves at the mercy of these criminals, and can end up suffering violence as a result.

This so-called Nordic Model has been law in the island of Ireland for nearly a decade now, and it has made things worse for the women involved, and it has done nothing to stop sex trafficking, as the facts in this article (and the testimony of a former sex worker) prove.

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2025/02/07/on-problems-with-the-nordic-model-of-prostitution/

Ash Regan's bill has been delayed for the moment, but it hasn't been defeated. There is a growing worry that what happened in Ireland could happen in Scotland. And it could extend to England and Wales as well.

Feminists should want to end violence against all women. So why is there support for the Nordic Model, which has proven to be so hazardous to female sex workers?

I'm curious as to what your thoughts are.

@MrsTerryPratchett You keep dodging the hard questions - why??

You advocate a model which criminalises women working together for safety, and you accuse me of not caring about women's safety?

Just be honest and admit that you want to ban prostitution no matter what, that you don't care if this makes sex workers safer or not, that you don't care if the ban is effective or not, you just want a ban no matter what.

The things I said are said by many women, too. Are they, too, pigeons you don't play chess with? What is your excuse for ignoring their points? If something is said by a man you ignore it, OK (and let's leave aside how you would react to a man doing the same...) but what when the very same things are said by women??

@OldCrone It is factually false that I have declined to answer. I did answer. I said I am interested in which policies work or not. Many of you will not believe me, for the reasons I have mentioned, but I don't think it is possible to represent the vastity of the figs I do not give about that...

Does this change anything?

Does my motivation change facts and evidence?

Again: the very same things are said by many women, too

You still haven't stated whether you have ever had any involvement in the buying or selling of sex @YetAnotherDude . That was what I asked you about.

@OldCrone I have not. Many of you would not believe me anyway, and I couldn't care less about that.
Can you now answer how this changes anything?

My motivations do not alter the facts.

Can some of you answer the inconvenient questions above, bearing in mind that the very same things are said by plenty of women, too?

What is my excuse?

You're a little too keen on women doing what you tell them. I'll answer one question of yours when you answer that one question of ours. Seems fair.

@MrsTerryPratchett I don't like people, regardless of their gender, sex, or any other characteristic, dodging inconvenient questions with intellectually dishonest excuses.

But I am not surprised you want to play the victim card and misrepresent it as a man telling a woman what to do. When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Pot meet kettle.

@MrsTerryPratchett Said the person who continues to refuse to answer inconvenient questions!

What would you say to the women raising the very same points I did?

Why is your only answer a deafening silence?

Answer us first.

But if these men are only criminals because prostitution is now illegal, they're still the same men doing exactly the same things aren't they?

Dear person who plays the victim card to avoid answering difficult questions,

which question(s) are you alleging I would not have answered?

Are you, or have you ever been, a punter?

@MrsTerryPratchett I have already answered that question.
Your poor text comprehension skills are not my problem,but anyway, the answer is no.

I have also already explained how I couldn't care less if people here don't believe me, how that answer is irrelevant, and how the answer to that question does not change anything.

Will you keep dodging the inconvenient questions which challenge your preconceptions?

Jolly good. Even though you are rude, you get one question for me. If you could refrain from a patronising wall of text, my poor comprehension skills might cope.

MrsTerryPratchett How about focusing on the debate- if the Nordic Model is indeed in the best interest of sex workers- instead of harassing/personal attacks on other users?

So more excuses to dodge the inconvenient questions. I see. Colour me surprised.
What you think of me doesn't matter.
Whether there is any evidence that the Nordic model works matters.
Why only 1 man was convicted in NI matters.
How many sex workers oppose vs welcome the Nordic model matters.
Why the Nordic model criminalises sex workers sharing a flat matters.

Can you address these points?
Or would you rather find more ways to attack me as an excuse to dodge the questions?

I don't respond to you.

That's not one question. After insulting my reading comprehension. Tsk tsk.

What does 'I have not' refer to? Unfortunately this simple 3-word sentence is ambiguous as a reply to my post.

I said: "You still haven't stated whether you have ever had any involvement in the buying or selling of sex"

Does "I have not" mean that you agree that you have not stated this, or are you saying that you have not ever had any involvement in the buying or selling of sex?

Ah Chris, that noted defender of whatever erodes women's rights to say no to men. What a surprise.

Germany legalised prostitution and violence has only increased. Nearly 95% of prostituted women in Germany are forced into it and want to escape. Around 80% are trafficked foreigners.

Time and again it seems that legalising prostitution actually increased human trafficking. And increases violence against women.

Women who have escaped prostitution are a large part of those groups pushing for the Nordic Model. It doesn't eradicate prostitution but it reduces demand, and as Gisele Pelicot memorably said, "puts the shame where it belongs."

One

Question

I

Will

Answer

It

I feel that's clear.

Why do you believe that the Nordic Model reduces demand?

Gisèle Pelicot hasn't made any comment on the subject of prostitution and neither has her daughter. Her daughter has made a comment on the subject of pornography.

Ok, I'll go with "legalising prostitution increases demand, which Germany and the Netherlands statistics show, and "Nordic Model reduces social acceptability of using prostituted women" as shown in the percentage of men using prostituted women in Sweden Vs Germany.

Gisèle Pelicot waived her right to anonymity because she rightly wanted the shame to be on the men who abuse and rape, not on the women who are abused and raped

Having listened to numerous survivors of prostitution speak at feminist events, I believe them. They were clear that they felt the Nordic Model was the best way to prevent more women being dragged into the abusive sex trade.

Those who speak out in favour of it are those who are still enmeshed, not those who've found a way out.

@OldCrone I have not had any involvement with the sex industry. I have neither bought nor sold nor exploited sex services nor sex workers in any way. Happy now?

Why do you ask? Because you think my motivation matters?

How about your motivation?

If a woman tells you that she wants to be a sex worker, that she is aware of the risks, but that she still wants to do it because she finds it better than the alternatives, is your reaction that she is entitled to do stuff you disagree with, as long as it is a free, informed choice? Or is your reaction that prostitution must be banned no matter what? I trust you will concur that the difference between accepting another point of view and imposing one's ideology is clear and important.

I trust you will concur that arguments, facts and evidence are useless with those who have already decided they want to impose their view no matter what.

Oh, and bear in mind I have been shouting from the rooftops that I totally get the argument whereby it should still be banned if only a tiny % does it freely, AND IF it can be demonstrated that banning it is effective rather than counterproductive.

@MoistVonL Germany legalised prostitution and violence has only increased.

Source?

Nearly 95% of prostituted women in Germany are forced into it and want to escape
Around 80% are trafficked foreigners.

A significant % of sex workers are foreigners in countries with the Nordic model, too. Can you prove the Nordic model has much of an effect in this regard?

In theory, prostitution was legalised in Germany in the early 2000s. In practice, it had always been de facto tolerated. Ever watched Deutschland 1983, the scene with the American officers in the brothel in West Berlin?

Poland and other Eastern European countries joined the EU in 2000.
So the legalisation happened shortly before millions of citizens from nearby, easily accessible, and poorer countries were granted right of free movement. Of course this must have had an impact on the sex industry.

It seems to me that you are attributing to the legalisation (of something which was de facto common anyway) effects which were really driven by something else. Do you think the influx of women from nearby poorer countries would have been very different if Germany had adopted the Nordic model? Why? Can you elaborate?

Of course the trafficking of women from poorer countries is a tragedy and it must be addressed. The point is not that. The point is where is the evidence that the Nordic model addresses this tragedy.

Again, Northern Ireland has prosecuted more sex workers for working together than men (only 1)!!! If this isn't a failure of the system I don't know what is