NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #56

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.
The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 from 28 September 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55

Regardless, Dr Upton should not have been permitted to use the female changing facilities.

Saw on twitter that the disciplinary outcome for Jennifer melle is expected today

Legal appeal:

In Kelly v Leonardo EJ MS was happy to interpret the Workplace Regs liberally.
Here EJ SK says it's not his job to interpret criminal law?

EJ SK makes much of fact Upton thinks he is a women of biological sex but that wasn't a legal finding and was deliberately not asserted legally. Thanks to @nebuloussupportpostcard that can be cross referenced to the transcript.

Dismisses the clear 2010 interpretation of biological sex and tries to suggest something else could have applied in 1992 before the gender delusion took hold.

Credibility

I know its not a standalone point of appeal but this bit is non sensical.

EJ SK did not address the fact that Upton confirmed he would sexually harass and gaslight female patients by treating those that asked for a doctor of the same sex. That goes to credibility.

The fact the witnesses were held to be credible when they had deliberately withheld evidence from the tribunal.

Inability of Isla Bumba to know her own sex - as she got married to a man as a woman recently she'd have had to check her birth certificate. Plain old lies.

Did anyone every do background research on the panel? Clearly captured.

He wasn't permitted. He permitted himself.

His handmaiden later got Isla Bumba a person with no expertise and no policy to affirm Uptons delusions. That after the fact you go girl was an act of harassment.

Very interesting.

Have you seen any of the big legal hitters (Naomi Cunningham, Ben Cooper, Michael Foran etc) picking up on this point? If not, I hope someone who is contact with them can give them a nudge in this direction.

If Sandie Peggie has it in her (💪💐) it sounds like this route plus an appeal re the tribunal could set precedent on this.

This twitter post is so true. As far as regressive, sexist ideologies go, transgenderism leaves the three Abrahamic religions in the dust.

Exactly this

That some people have DSDs doesn’t change the fact there are 2 sexes and that Dr Upton is simply a man who chose to grow his hair and wear women’s clothing.

I think you may not realise that it is not on to use people with DSDs as an argument for trans genderism.

Equally didn’t give a toss about any, and every, woman who would need to use the changing room.

It was the man who inserted himself into the women’s changing room who tried to push things on women (EJ should have recognised that). Pushed his prick (as in possession and behaviour) into the women’s changing room. Sandy pointing this out was not in truth the contravention that EJ tries to frame it.

edit: spelling correction.

This is an important point. Males that enter female single sex spaces have not been given permission by women to do so. There has not been a vote, a discussion or a referendum for women to speak about how seeing a male in a female space effects them.

I was in a toilet and a little girl was there, and then her dad came out of the stall. I was frozen and looked at him with terror. I implicitly understand why he woudl assess the male toilet inappropriate for her but hadn't considered the effect that his presence in the female toilet would have on women.

860. There are arguments both for and against the claimant’s position that the same approach should be followed, and for and against the respondents’ position that a definition of women which is inclusive of those who are trans women is appropriate in order to construe the 1992 Regulations consistently with Article 8. In our view these arguments are not ones that we can competently address.

In Kelly the Employment Judge went with biological interpretation but then and said but the sinks are mixed sex within the single sex space.

How come one can address competently and the other not.

Clearly Big Sond is crying out for an appeal.

She was suspended for asking a male who thinks they are female from leaving a female changing space because she felt uncomfortable with them being there What sort of bullshit is that in the 21st century.Women are silenced for expressing how they feel or accused of harassment and dragged through the mill .

This is very depressing that a woman is reduced to what a man percieves a woman to be, rather than the complex humans that we are.

I found this part of the judgement massively transphobic.

You can be a big bulky trans identified man with a beard but if 'you live as a woman' not 'look like a woman' you can get a GRC.

Sandy is harassing all the trans identified men who don't 'pass'. What a nasty transphobic man.

If you are very hairy bodied bald man with a penis and gonads and think you are a woman you are allowed into the womans changing rooms. Your purported feminity is irrelevant in law or in reality. All you need is gender dysphoria and a bit of magical thinking.

EJ Kemp is a transphobic person.

Have you missed the "and eyes" part of my sentence?

But I'm also interested : I'm not suggesting Upton did show his genitalia. What if he had, just for the sake of the argument? Would you have thought it normal, since he considers them to be "her" female penis?

Yes, and this still could go to appeal.....but even this judgement declared that he should not have been permitted in the first place.

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5457132-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-57

Started in advance because I'm just about to dash out for some hours and this thread is moving quickly towards being full.

My usual request: please would you continue posting on here until it's full before moving onto the next thread. Thanks.

Of course a great hulk of a man who doesn't actually pass can go in the ladies. Don't be so transphobic yourself. Bigot.

At the very least, twitter is fun this morning.

JFC It doesn't stop.

So true.

Women now get to say we would like spaces away from men who want our presence to validate their gender dysphoria.

They should opt in women who are happy to get undressed in front of any men. That will be a much smaller cohort.

It is extraordinary as a judgement. It just shows the judge to be mentally the age of a primary school child in his perceptions of male and female. Perhaps he is autistic and fixed on what a female is. Missed the subtleties and cues somewhere along the line.

In real life, a great many actual women do not look like this anyway, but when they do, they still do not resemble Upton.

Also, judge, either transwomen can go into a woman’s changing room or they can’t. It can’t be that one who looks more feminine is allowed, but one whose appearance fails to look feminine enough will not. Your judgement is utterly discriminatory.

Sandy Kemps guide to law.

If they have a swishy feminine skirt then nothing to see here.

I got distracted last night by re arguing the basics of men can’t be women and shouldn’t be in women’s spaces.

Must stay on task, must stay on task, must stay on task!

The basics have been discussed to death. We know how it works, and this thread isn’t about educating people who haven’t caught on yet.

This thread is for the legal implications of the Sandie Peggie employment tribunal, and its related issues. Like…

I wonder how Big Sond feels about things this morning?
I can’t wait to see the legal eagles dissection of the decision.
What happened about the Information Commissioner’s concern about Fife’s behaviour?

Must stay on task, must stay on task, must stay on task!

He is a transphobe and a bigot.

To be fair Employment Judge Michelle Sutherland was a transphobe too. She said all the men who dressed in women’s clothes at Leonardo’s couldn’t be told apart from women just by looking.

Men who think they are women don’t need to actually look like women. That’s transphobia writ large. You can be a bearded hulk of a man and still have your gender feelings.

Won’t anyone think of Conchita?

The problem with the judgement is that is 300 pages of mostly pish.

Will take a while to wade through. But there will be a picking apart of course.

And an appeal I would suggest.