NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #56

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.
The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 from 28 September 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55

The poster said "I like to get undressed in front of men".

Im not going to argue about it anymore. Please respect boundaries by not making this personal.

Thanks.

It’s about a woman - all the women- being asked to undress in front of a man.

But that doesn’t matter
My elderly dad wouldn’t pose a danger in a women’s changing room but he still shouldn’t be there
because privacy and dignity are considerations too
and because he’s male
same as dr Upton is male, so said the Tribunal
being a so called trans woman is an irrelevance

tell me Hackneymum why do you care more about male rights than women’s rights?

As a second point, by entering the women's changing room, DU has already excluded himself from the class of men who don't assault or harrass women in women's changing rooms.

By doing so he increases his risk profile enormously.

Pity that Upton doesn’t believe in respecting boundaries.

But apparently Dr. Upton (male by any legal definition) can ignore the obviously hurtful loss of privacy and dignity of a woman who needs to clean up after significant bleeding. I think that you are leaving your thumb on the balance and not in a good way.

Yes - the back to the future Time Machine can’t help them.

A recent mass delusion doesn’t make it make sense in 1992. Men are biological men under the act.

Quite! We shouldn't have to prove that men are a threat in women's spaces, just that they are men in women's spaces.

It doesn't matter if a man is the nicest man in the whole world , he doesn't belong in women's toilets - the irony is that the nicest men in the world wouldn't dream of going into the women's toilets, and until the trans juggernaut rolled into town, 'the good men stayed out so the bad men stood out'.

I find the "threat" thing so squirrelly look-over-there disingenuous. I am very confident that my 90+ year old FiL isn't a sexual threat to me, nor is my gay colleague, nor my middle-aged next-door neighbour who likes gardening. I still don't think any of them belong in the female changing room. Because female humans deserve - in addition to safety - privacy, dignity and freedom from the male gaze. That includes less-than-angelic female humans like Sandie.

You don't mind undressing in front of men (note I didn't say "like") when they identify as women. It's absolutely your right.

I do.

Again, it was far more than a simple observation that "he is a man". It was scrutinising/ analysing parts of her appearance

It might be hard for you to compute but it is possible to care about the rights of a small persecuted minority (trans rights) AND women’s rights at the same time. Doesn’t mean I’m putting men above women in any way.

Please respect boundaries and stop talking about my personal preferences when I get undressed.

So true. If the BBC had been accurate, starting years ago, we'd be in a completely different place. They bear quite a responsibility.

Well this judgement makes it personal.

You are now a woman who is happy to strip to her knickers in front of men.

Or you engage your Article 8 rights and get a space where you don’t have to strip to your knickers in front of men.

You are group A. Your preference is to get undressed with men.

Almost everyone else on here is B.

EJ Kemp made it personal for all women.

Sorry you’ve been sexually harassed by the Judge in the Peggie case. That sucks for you.

What percentage of the “men” committing crimes against women are trans women? Asking for a friend.

Agreed, and blood on their hands for pushing 'gender affirming care' to children

I honestly cannot believe this. Been busy with family stuff so only just seen it. Unbelievable. Will go back and catch up now.

How can we tell which people deserve to have their boundaries respected when merely discussing getting undressed, and which people don't get to have their boundaries respected when they actually have to get undressed in the actual real world?

🤔

*You are now a woman who is happy to strip to her knickers in front of men.

You are group A. Your preference is to get undressed with men.*

Stop. We can discuss this case without you doing this.

I don't like to jump to conclusions, but I suspect the answer is that men who are sad about having to use the gents have absolute priority.

We can discuss changing room facilities , just stop making things pointed and personal

Why is that hard for
you to understand?

It's about men using the women's changing room. You either fall into one of two camps.

Camp 1 I am NOT happy for men, any men, to be in the women's changing rooms, and I am NOT happy to undress in front of men in the women's changing room.

Or

Camp 2 I am happy for all men, because if you let some in you actually let them all in, to be in the women's changing room and I'm happy to undress in front of men in the women's changing room.

You are in camp 2. That's fine. But at least own what you are advocating for.

My AI says:
Direct answer: There are currently no official UK statistics that provide a percentage of crimes against women committed specifically by trans women. The Ministry of Justice and Office for National Statistics do not publish offender data broken down by gender identity. Available evidence suggests that trans women offenders are recorded within broader male categories, but the proportion is unknown and not separately reported

Maybe it's time the MoJ started collecting the stats, of course they would first have to admit now many men are in women's prisons first.

Beth Upton is an NHS doctor who has chosen to spend her life saving lives and serving the NHS.

As a third point, the fact that he's a doctor and decided to devote his career is entirely irrelevant.

Doctors are expected to follow rules, just like anyone else, and the world is full of criminal doctors who while easily described (as you do) as angels, abuse their position to cause great harm. The same is true for nurses, priests and teachers, all of whom some people choose to lionize.

If choosing to follow a traditional 'caring' career was evidence of good intent then we would never need to vet teacher, scout and guide leaders, nurses or anyone else.

Please re-think your approach to risk evaluation, which really isn't much removed from "not my nigel".