NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #56

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.
The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 from 28 September 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55

Just goes to show.... judges are human, and that's why we have higher courts, where the judges are a bit more superhuman

If you read Article Eight of the Human Rights Act, you'll see that consent has a lot to do with this.

This.

The more of this shit that happens the more determined I am to never agree to compromise on our rights.

When scolders wail about boys being removed from GG and poor old men having to leave WI and what’s the harm of letting them stay etc…..THIS is the harm. A woman being unable to object to sharing a changing room with a man.

And that leads to men hitting women in the boxing ring with the whole world watching.

And that leads to women being locked up in prison with men.

And this is without going into the issues relating to children …..

No compromise.

I loved that phrasing. It's unfortunate that this particular Tribunal considered Dr. Upton such a credible witness over Sandie. Thats what it seemed to come down to.

The worst I've seen so far, I've been flicking through, was the section saying Dr. Upton did change the notes far after the incident but simply did not remember that they had done so and that was so understandable.

I personally hope Sandie will appeal, but if she doesn't want to go through that that's fair enough and she shouldn't feel obliged.

At least she won on harassment by her employer which was how this case got started - she was ridiculously suspended. There's also the fact that she and other women should be accommodated with their own changing space.

I don't think I've made any comments about his personal appearance, but if I were to see him and recognize him as a man I would have no hesitation in saying so in this thread, as his appearance as a man or a woman is relevant to the topic.

Based on relevance, I think that's fine treatment of any individual in any category.

Given that his appearance as a man or woman is relevant I am entirely indifferent to whether it causes DU any hurt or not.

I will not put up with other people's attempts to control my language.

PLEASE PLEASE STOP BITING THE GOADS WHICH CLEARLY THEY ARE.

I will try and throw you all off the scent in an attempt to divert attention.

I am not personally enthusiastic that one can sue an individual employee in a tribunal, because it has the potential to let the employer of the hook.

and in addition on this occasion it proved to be a strategic misstep.

i suspect we would have had a more favourable outcome had Upton’s not been a party to proceedings

I don't think I've made any comments about his personal appearance

well apologies then. You jumped in on the middle of a conversation so I thought you were endorsing the things that were said. It wasn't just - he looks like a man- it was picking apart the details of DU's appearance. I simply commented I thought it was unnecessary.

would you care to elaborate?

Usually, the facility is closed for maintenance, and users directed elsewhere.

Where I work, the cleaners close the loos to clean them, regardless of whether the cleaner's sex matches the sign on the loo door. Gives them a clear run at getting it all done without having to remember which cubicles and sinks they need to return to because someone was using it.

I don't know @Hedgehogsrightsarehumanrights you are probably more familiar than I am.

But Dr. Upton continued to use the female changing room despite being aware that Sandie was uncomfortable, i.e. was waiting outside for Dr. Upton to finish changing.

I.e. even noting that on their phone as a sort of micro aggression. And continuing to do so after the face to face discussion, and making the utterly ridiculous claim he was unsafe.

That to me meets the definition of harassment - it's knowingly repeating behaviour to violate someone's dignity, even when they've asked you to stop.

It's very different from a transwomen using women's facilities unaware anyone is being impacted or upset.

Edit - there's also the "patient safety" notes he claimed were contemporaneous and turned out to be written after he'd been asked to leave the changing room.

Jus opened the bbc app and it’s the main headlining story, with 2 articles 👏

Another hideous thread of hatred and transphobia. Imagine what it must be like to be a trans person these days. How fearful for their own lives they must be. Simply for daring to live as themselves. Beth Upton is an NHS doctor who has chosen to spend her life saving lives and serving the NHS. What evidence is there to suggest she poses any danger whatsoever to other women? This idea that trans women are a threat or a danger to women is backed up by no evidence. Crossing the road or driving a car is a bigger threat (looking forward to someone responding with fake stats to desperately attempt to prove that).

It’s disgusting to see so many people talk such nonsense about something they know so little about. Im
glad there are people like Dr Upton standing up to bullies whose irrational behaviour deserves to be called out and not idolised.

And if DU felt uncomfortable with SP's presence in the changers, because say DU knew SP to be a transphobe. Should SP just remove herself too? Would that be harrassment? Or do you think she is entitled to keep using the changers?

Their coverage for the 6 o'clock news was balanced and informative. And I've noticed that they use "biological man who identifies as a woman" which given their previous craven pandering to the "don't ever speak the truth" lobby is a considerable improvement.

Yes he did all you say he did but it is up to an employer to address this not a court.

and if they don't deal with it is on the employer as a vicarious liability in its failures.

On this occasion, given it is considered a difficult issue, i think strategically Peggie lawyers were asking too much of a shift in one go.

bite sized chunks…

"daring to live as themselves" is fine, @HackneyMum1 . I don't give a toss what someone chooses to wear. But as a male-bodied individual, using the female changing rooms is trampling all over perfectly rational and reasonable boundaries.

“It is clear we have not heard the last from Sandie Peggie” 👏

great write up!

some good excerpts:

Honestly, ppl everywhere are going to be blinking at the sudden tsunami of “biological male identifies as a woman” cases the bbc will be reporting on forthwith.

if they didn’t think it was an issue before, they will now

I loved that phrasing. It's unfortunate that this particular Tribunal considered Dr. Upton such a credible witness over Sandie. Thats what it seemed to come down to.

I wonder if the testimony of that so-called friend of SP (can’t remember her name) and SP’s ‘joke’ in the Facebook exchange made her a ‘less credible’ witness. Yet, if SP wasn’t a bit bolshie (for want of a better word), she wouldn’t have pushed back on Dr Us presence in the CR. So many women conditioned to be handmaidens and subordinate their needs to men’s wishes. Even when what they want is to supersede or supplant us.

lol

Oh the irony Hackney mum!!!!!

I hope Sandie appeals- i couldn't believe what i was reading with that judgement.
Reminds me of the judge and the "fragrant Mrs Archer"

As it's pantomime season I will succumb ... OH YES HE DID.
he knew he was making S P uncomfortable - he noted her waiting outside the room or not coming in when she could avoid it if he was there. But he did not care. At all.

Why are you saying it’s sexually harassing to observe you are supportive of pro trans identifying men in women’s changing room?

Why are you so transphobic?

Why is it sexually demeaning to say you’re happy to get undressed with men?

If you are a biological woman you’re happy to allow biological males into the changing room.

If you are a biological man, then it’s not sexually demeaning to change with men.

Make anything you say make sense.

Will nobody think of the poor men😭😭😭