Guide Leader concerns

[GuideParent]

My daughter is a Guide so I’ve been following what’s been happening after Girlguiding put out their statement last week.

I’m pretty concerned about the behaviour of some of the leaders. Obviously they are entitled to protest the policy, but surely there are limits about involving the girls in their units to do the same?

There’s a Facebook page I’ve had a look at and leaders seem to be doing things like ordering trans badges for the girls to wear.
I’ve attached a pic of someone in a thread about what to say to parents (I believe she is quoting what she has emailed out to parents) saying they are not allowed to be political, but they are being political

I think Girlguiding themselves have totally brought about this situation with their statement. Rather than it being politically neutral, about the law and recognising that there will be a range of views within the organisation, their statement has taken a clear political pov that this decision is basically wrong but their hands are tied. I feel that leaders have taken their cue from this and have assumed that the view that ‘this is wrong’ is universal among the organisation and among all members. The leaders also seem to have been provided with no further direction about how they should be handing the situation with girls and parents.

Obviously there will be lots of GC parents and prob Guides themselves. Surely leaders marshalling the children in their unit to support a particular political view risks potential lawsuits regarding belief discrimination?

But they delete the calm and temperate comments from people pleased about the news.

Mind boggling.

Myself and my other leaders are either neutral or like myself really clued up and not at all surprised that girlguiding had to change their policy to avoid breaking the law.
I think it’s good to remember that those who agree with he policy change are probably still avoiding saying it in public / on social media in their own name due to the possibility of abuse. My proper job is a teacher so I’m definitely not going to be public in my political views. I imagine there are lots like me, not posting on Facebook.
Saying that, I have been dismayed at the tone of GG’s message and many of the Facebook pages.

People can email GG and/or make a complaint without doing so publically on FB/socials.

Totally agree with all you’ve said.
Totally adult led, there presumably is a code of conduct that these leaders are now breaking, but HQ have pretty much allowed this situation to develop by releasing such a partisan statement and providing no follow up or guidance for the leaders.

Offering badge credit for letter writing and using children to further the leaders’ own political aims is so far from acceptable that their judgment on everything, including safeguarding, is completely blown out of the water.

There is a code of conduct for leaders.

Bunch of mentalists

How ironic that it includes this line:

It seems like their choices were

• allow anyone to join (extremely unpopular - it has repeatedly been shown how much members value a female only space)

That rainbow leader comment though.

How can you state the value of a female space on a post arguing for male inclusion?

I just don't get how anyone's brain works like this.

Edit: I hadn't refreshed and seen Eyes' comment above. Sorry for the repeat but glad someone else saw it.

I just don't get how anyone's brain works like this.

I would not wish to be unkind, but it is difficult to come up with an explanation other than that their brain isn't working when it comes to this.

That's the purpose of the dogmatic mantras - to bypass critical thinking. It's the same as cults. (It is a cult.)

I'm a Guide leader and agree there is a small group of very vocal women who are planning protest and forgetting their Guide promise of being true to their beliefs and the laws about being friendly and a sister to all Guides.
They have forgotten that we are all allowed our own beliefs and that they should be allowing their girls to make up their own minds. I was particularly shocked about the poster who asked how they were meant to teach the girls that trans women are women if they weren't allowed at Guides.
I keep an eye on their Facebook page...I'm not sure how many on their are actually leaders and how many are generic Trans rights campaigners.
I am however concerned about the number of people that don't think girls deserve their own space.
We went to see Zootropolis at the weekend. It was so aligned to the current situation..

Evil man steals woman's investigation.
Brave girl stands up to many and returns it for the benefit of the community

Was the post asking about how they were supposed to teach TWAW if they weren’t allowed to at Guides on the Facebook group @LostMySocks?

It was a Facebook group. Can't remember if one of the closed leader programme/Guide leader ones or the Guiders for Everyone open one.

I was shocked though as as leaders we should never enforce one viewpoint but instead encourage polite and respectful debate.

Of course trans identified people exist and that is fine. But boys cannot be Guides however they identify while all girls are welcome whether they identify as NB, male or anything in between. Whether or not they feel comfortable in Guiding is another matter but that is up to them. If they prefer mixed sex then there are plenty of alternatives out there.

It's slightly reassuring that not all Guiders are TA's, but if the culture has meant that most are just keeping out of it it's not going to help much.

What's not at all reassuring - and surely Girlguiding realise how risky this is - is that there are leaders who are reinforcing social transition of young boys and making other members play along with it. This is inappropriate interference in a child's development and goes directly against NHS advice. Cass made ot clear that social transition is not a neutral act. It disrupts a child's normal psychological development and identity formation. Being involved in affirming 'trans girls' also messes with the minds of the girls as well. I've seen posts that claim that there are boys in Rainbows and Brownies. This is really alarming.

Parental agreement (or direction) on this is not enough. Girlguiding could be the subject of legal action from detransitioners in the future. I don't know why they think this is a wise course of action. Are they so blinkered by their own sense of self-righteousness that they think this is "being kind"? It's ghoulish and playing God. You can't change sex and there is no innate condition of being a "trans child". The parents doing this should be the subject of a safeguarding referral. Girlguiding shouldn't be going along with it.

Laughable really that they think petitions will change the law.
As previously stated these leaders have probably all got skin in the game and are angry that their children will now have to find an alternative group appropriate to their sex.
Local social media is far away from the real world however.

I think the problem is that trans people don't want mixed sex/ unisex facilities, services and clubs. They want GG to be female only. But they also want female to include anyone who says they are a woman or girl. And can't grasp that these two things are mutually exclusive. Because 'be kind' requires you to turn your brain off.

Yeah. I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed but the bekinders make me look like Stephen Hawking.

The whole point for activists of taking over and running women/girl groups was to capture them, control them, and redirect them to serving the interests of the political lobby and the people they champion.

Their interest in the women/girls isn't there: that wasn't what they wanted the job for. If the organisation isn't being useful to the agenda then to an activist it's not only pointless and purposeless, it's a bad thing to allow it to exist at all. Nothing should be allowed that makes girl/woman something a man/boy cannot have and be the primary concern in.

This is all about having to give women/girls the equal respect/validity, and accept a boundary. That's what the rage is.

Girl Guides should be a safe space for girls, my girls go to scouts and cubs and have done since age 5, so their are equivalent organisations where Trans Kids can thrive, be included and accepted.
If the leaders don't like then why dont they start a scout unit!

They didn't do a survey on them changing the rules behind the scenes did they?

My understanding is that this survey is not being run by Girlguiding but is by one of the protest groups

It is definitely a survey from the protest group. I've completed it to say that I approve of the changes. I think that they need to see that there is an alternative view. I have however stated that I'm pleased that we will continue to support all girls however they identify, so NB and TBs welcome and supported

I've just read an online article from The Independent, from today about the petition:

Amanda Jane Heather, who is leading a petition that already has more than 200 signatures, said: "We cannot, in good conscience, uphold a policy that contradicts established safeguarding research, the lived experience of our members, and the inclusive ethos we were trained to deliver.

She has set up the Facebook group to oppose the changes. The posts on there are crazy. Leaders saying they’re going to ignore the policy. A man posting that his 6 year old son, that thinks he’s a girl, tried to cut off his 🍆 with plastic scissors he could join Rainbows. What on earth are parents telling their children? Now wanting school children to write to their MP and complain. I’d be furious if my children were set this task in school.

If a child tries to cut their genitals, the answer is not Girl Guides, I'm afraid. The answer is an urgent safeguarding referral and investigation.

Honestly I think it would be better if they close over this, rather than continuing to gaslight and indoctrinate young girls and their parents.

The safeguarding failures alone should have been their end when they started this nonsense.