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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Piece in Guardian - US Republicans want to repeal Amendment 19 giving women the vote.

123 replies

Treaclewell · 04/12/2025 17:02

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/dec/04/women-right-to-vote-disenfranchisement

Land of the free?
Gobsmacked.
Though I think they might have a problem with getting enough turkeys voting for Thanksgiving.

Rightwingers are trying to destroy women’s right to vote | Moira Donegan

Calls for disenfranchisement rest on a single assumption: that women’s citizenship is partial and conditional

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/dec/04/women-right-to-vote-disenfranchisement

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 05/12/2025 18:15

TempestTost · 05/12/2025 18:04

That's a very disingenuous way to describe what Farage said. He wasn't saying that AT was good.

I didn't say whether Farage described AT as good or bad. I noted that Farage had described AT as an important voice.

There is nothing disingenuous about this. It is a statement of fact.

An uncomfortable one, for some, perhaps.

nicepotoftea · 05/12/2025 18:18

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 05/12/2025 17:17

Look, I'm not going to deny that a lot of left wing politicians got it wrong on the trans issue. Some are still getting it wrong. Many on the right got it wrong too, at one stage, though they seemed to come to their senses a little earlier and then quickly identified it as an issue that could buy them political advantage. But there are and always have been many left wing feminists who are gender critical.

The trans issue isn't the only issue facing women right now though, and it isn't the only one that matters. There is simply no point in electing people just because they know what a woman is, if they don't see women as equal citizens.

I honestly don't know why the trans issue has to be dragged into every single argument. Yes, many parties on the left have terrible policies on this issue, but that doesn't make it reasonable or rational for people to vote for any far right shit that might be presented as an alternative. People need to own their choices.

But there are and always have been many left wing feminists who are gender critical.

Absolutely. They have been at the forefront of defending women's rights in the UK, and the Labour Party does at least pay lip service to agreeing with the Supreme Court decision, being cautious about 'gender affirming care' and recognising that women's sport can only exist if men are excluded. However, we are discussing America.

This is not a 'trans issue' it's a women's rights issue, but if left wing groups who would usually support women - Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, the Democratic Party, choose not to use language that specifically refers to the category of people whose sex is female, then they cannot defend women's rights. For instance, I don't think you can effectively discuss abortion rights or maternity rights if you can't say that only women give birth.

nicepotoftea · 05/12/2025 18:19

TempestTost · 05/12/2025 18:14

I know someone who thinks this.

I also know a guy who believes voting in most cases, including in the US and the UK, is essentially a kind of trick to make people complicit in their own domination by the people who really control things. He thinks left and right politics are illusions which don't represent substantive differernces, but it all keeps the electorate pacified and distracted. He is not an idiot either, he is odd but very smart and argues his point effectively.

Are they imagining a hereditary monarchy, and if not how are they thinking the next monarch would be chosen?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:22

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 05/12/2025 18:15

I didn't say whether Farage described AT as good or bad. I noted that Farage had described AT as an important voice.

There is nothing disingenuous about this. It is a statement of fact.

An uncomfortable one, for some, perhaps.

Well yes it is a statement of fact that many young men find Tate impressive or “important”, for whatever reason. Who exactly do you think should find that “uncomfortable” here? Do you think we’re all Farage or Tate fans here?

And yes, your comment was disingenuous and you know it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:26

I am owning my choice not to vote for any party which works against women’s rights. So at the moment that is all of them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:27

nicepotoftea · 05/12/2025 17:00

I am sure that there are some left wing women in America fighting for women's rights. After all it's a big country.

However, they don't seem to be prominent members of the Democratic Party.

Yes, I do think women like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have prioritised men's feelings over women's rights. She isn't responsible for the views of right wing men, but she is certainly responsible for attacking women's rights.

This.

moto748e · 05/12/2025 18:30

Hasn't AOC back-tracked a bit recently?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:33

Has she?

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 05/12/2025 18:34

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:22

Well yes it is a statement of fact that many young men find Tate impressive or “important”, for whatever reason. Who exactly do you think should find that “uncomfortable” here? Do you think we’re all Farage or Tate fans here?

And yes, your comment was disingenuous and you know it.

Not disingenuous in the slightest.

Farage has had his photo taken with Tate doing a big smiley thumbs up. Do you think he is going out of his way to show his disapproval?

And why would he? He knows that they appeal to a lot of the same crowd.

As to your other question, no, I'm certainly not assuming that everyone here likes Farage or Tate, why would I? There are lots of decent people on MN. But it would also be true to say that Farage does have quite a following on MN. Not so sure about Tate. I suspect that there will be at least some Farage fans who aren't so keen on him, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, I made a factual statement about Farage describing Tate as an important voice. I'm not really sure why you seem so eager to argue the toss about this?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:35

Yes, it was completely disingenuous. You see, we’re allowed to disagree.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:37

Farage is a dick. Not seen evidence of his “following” on MN so I’ll assume it’s your perception and treat it accordingly.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 05/12/2025 18:38

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:35

Yes, it was completely disingenuous. You see, we’re allowed to disagree.

This is getting a bit panto now.

You can claim that it was disingenuous until you're blue in the face, but you don't seem to be able to articulate why you think this.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 05/12/2025 18:39

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:37

Farage is a dick. Not seen evidence of his “following” on MN so I’ll assume it’s your perception and treat it accordingly.

OK, maybe you don't spend much time on here then.

There are a lot of Reform supporters on MN.

But we can at least agree that Farage is a dick. So there is some common ground.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:40

I think of people who rush in to defend Farage for his wankery in much the same way as people who appear to push their agenda on any thread that criticises the current government shitshow, personally. Because I don’t agree with either of them.

Ponderingwindow · 05/12/2025 18:40

It is a fringe group now, but there are policies being pushed today and people who have been elected that 20 years ago I never would have dreamed my country would support.

Things like this should be a reminder that the rights women have today are fragile. We have them not because all people believe we deserve them, but because it is convenient for society for us to have those rights at this point in time. If the government wants to take them away, we will be hard pressed to win them back. It could come down to a civil war and physical violence is not a methodology that tends to end in decisions that benefit women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:42

It’s hardly surprising that on a large forum some people will be supporters of a party currently doing best in the polls, is it.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 05/12/2025 18:46

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:42

It’s hardly surprising that on a large forum some people will be supporters of a party currently doing best in the polls, is it.

Who said it was surprising?

I merely stated that Farage has a following on here. Because he does.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:46

And I will. Because it’s what I think. Hope that helps.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:47

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 05/12/2025 18:46

Who said it was surprising?

I merely stated that Farage has a following on here. Because he does.

i guess that’s just democracy, isn’t it?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:48

Ponderingwindow · 05/12/2025 18:40

It is a fringe group now, but there are policies being pushed today and people who have been elected that 20 years ago I never would have dreamed my country would support.

Things like this should be a reminder that the rights women have today are fragile. We have them not because all people believe we deserve them, but because it is convenient for society for us to have those rights at this point in time. If the government wants to take them away, we will be hard pressed to win them back. It could come down to a civil war and physical violence is not a methodology that tends to end in decisions that benefit women.

I agree.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:54

Currently as things go I’ll be abstaining. I’m very much a fan of the right of others to vote for the party they support the most though. That’s why people say it’s up to the left to sort themselves the fuck out, because the electorate will ultimately decide, like they did in the US. Anyway, nice chatting.

IwantToRetire · 05/12/2025 19:00

There is no official motion or bill by the Republican Party to outright deny all women the right to vote in the U.S.; this right is guaranteed by the 19th Amendment to the Constitution.

However, some Republican-backed legislative efforts and fringe rhetoric have raised concerns about potentially disenfranchising millions of eligible women indirectly through stringent voting regulations.

Legislative Actions and Concerns

The primary concern among critics focuses on the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility (SAVE) Act, a bill passed by the House in April 2024 and reintroduced in 2025. Proponents argue the bill is necessary to prevent non-citizens from voting, which is already illegal.

However, the bill's requirements could pose significant barriers for many American citizens, disproportionately affecting women:

  • Proof of Citizenship Matching Name: The SAVE Act would require states to obtain proof of citizenship when people register to vote, using documents like a passport or birth certificate. The critical issue is the requirement for names on all documents to match exactly. An estimated 69 million women have changed their names after marriage and do not have an updated birth certificate or passport reflecting their current legal name.
  • Logistical and Financial Hurdles: Obtaining updated documents can be difficult and costly. A birth certificate copy can cost up to twenty dollars in some states, and a passport costs significantly more.
  • In-Person Requirement: The bill effectively ends online or mail-in registration updates, mandating in-person verification, which creates burdens for people with disabilities, the elderly, rural voters, and caregivers, who are often women.

Opponents argue these measures are designed to suppress votes from demographic groups that tend to vote for Democratic candidates, including unmarried women and communities of color. A Democratic amendment to the SAVE Act to ensure no eligible married women would be denied the right to vote was blocked by Republicans in a House committee. The bill is expected to face a difficult path in the Senate.

Fringe Rhetoric

Separately, a small number of influential voices in the far-right movement have openly called for the repeal of the 19th Amendment or promoted ideas like "head-of-household" voting, which has historically disenfranchised women. These views have gained some attention on social media platforms, especially following polls in past elections that suggested a Republican candidate might win if only men voted, but they remain on the extreme edges of political opinion and are not a formal party position.

ArabellaSaurus · 05/12/2025 19:08

MalagaNights · 05/12/2025 17:17

There are actually factions of young conservatives who believe that the right to vote should be widely revoked for everyone and advocate for a return to a monarchy.

No one is taking them seriously though.

Is this what the 'no kings' stuff.was all about?

Tbh I heard so much hyperbolic nonsense over what was about to happen in.the US I have mostly stopped listening.

I've no doubt there's some bad shit going on, but because its clouded with 'Trump's going to invade Canada' daftness, it becomes too frustrating to sift out the more proportionate news.

ArabellaSaurus · 05/12/2025 19:11

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 18:37

Farage is a dick. Not seen evidence of his “following” on MN so I’ll assume it’s your perception and treat it accordingly.

Most I've seen is people accusing women on here of being Shire Wives.

ArabellaSaurus · 05/12/2025 19:14

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 05/12/2025 18:15

I didn't say whether Farage described AT as good or bad. I noted that Farage had described AT as an important voice.

There is nothing disingenuous about this. It is a statement of fact.

An uncomfortable one, for some, perhaps.

Got context? Your post suggested Farage was a supporter of Tate. Is he?

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