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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
Doggielovecharlotte · 28/11/2025 17:20

lechiffre55 · 28/11/2025 17:16

The phrase honour killing is a reference to a very specific thing. That the phrase is inaccurate and feels very excusey in nature does not mean we cannot use it to refer to honour killings. Because that's what the people who commit them call them. I am preserving cultural context to criticise it.

If you read up stream it was me who's been using the word murder a lot and first. Do not attempt to police my language.

Edited

But we don’t call things “jealousy killings” for instance

it’s recommended not to use that as it gives the idea there is a legitimate reason for the murder

no policing here - it’s outdated

Doggielovecharlotte · 28/11/2025 17:21

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 28/11/2025 11:25

I do wish newspapers would stop using the term 'honour killing' (even if they do put honour in quotes) and refer to it as premeditated or cold-blooded murder - which is exactly what it is. 😡

This!

Doggielovecharlotte · 28/11/2025 17:21

There is no honour in murder

lechiffre55 · 28/11/2025 17:23

@Doggielovecharlotte

One of my earlier posts because your scroll up wheel is clearly broken.

**
I get what you're saying, and I feel wierd using the words both 'honour' and 'killing'. It's a fukking premeditated murder, call it that. The 'honour' bit I think should be left in for context. I don't think there's anything at all ever remotely honourable about murdering a female family member, but leaving the word 'honour' there highlights starkly a cultural difference that goes directly against the cultural enrichment narrative. There is nothing at all even remotely enriching about murdering women because you disagree with the way they choose to live their lives.
I'd like to see all those men hang for what they did. Lets see how 'honourable' you feel dangling from a noose. I would happily be the one that pulls the lever to the drop.

OP posts:
DelectableMe · 28/11/2025 17:23

FuckOffMadison · 28/11/2025 11:07

Poor, poor girl. So badly let down by everyone. I wonder who lied so they stopped monitoring her.
Before her death, Ryan was being monitored by the police and was given protection, but that was ended prior to her murder.

It has been estimated that cops in the Netherlands provide heavy protection to at least five women per year at risk of honour killings.
Oh for fucking fucks sake. If they really hate the westernised way of living then why are the living in the western world? Oh yes, because it improves the mens lives , but fuck the womenfolk they can't be allowed the same improvement can they 😠

In a nutshell. It improves the men's lives in every way, but they don't want "their" women to have the freedoms they have.

Doggielovecharlotte · 28/11/2025 17:25

lechiffre55 · 28/11/2025 17:23

@Doggielovecharlotte

One of my earlier posts because your scroll up wheel is clearly broken.

**
I get what you're saying, and I feel wierd using the words both 'honour' and 'killing'. It's a fukking premeditated murder, call it that. The 'honour' bit I think should be left in for context. I don't think there's anything at all ever remotely honourable about murdering a female family member, but leaving the word 'honour' there highlights starkly a cultural difference that goes directly against the cultural enrichment narrative. There is nothing at all even remotely enriching about murdering women because you disagree with the way they choose to live their lives.
I'd like to see all those men hang for what they did. Lets see how 'honourable' you feel dangling from a noose. I would happily be the one that pulls the lever to the drop.

Nope I’ve read all the post from the beginning

puts in context what?

ErrolTheDragon · 28/11/2025 17:32

maybe we ought to prioritise our own ‘cultural context’ (basic human rights and equalities) and come up with an appropriate term? It’s been done in the case of female genital mutilation, rather than the ‘cultural’ euphemism ‘female circumcision’.

Not that I can think of anything which accurately describes the depravity of the perpetrators.

euff · 28/11/2025 17:32

I have seen a few newspaper articles about men killed in the UK under the guise of honour. Not parents killing their sons but the other man in a relationship with their female relative etc. I hope they catch her father. Unfortunately they will serve comfortable short jail sentences for the crime.

Doggielovecharlotte · 28/11/2025 17:34

ErrolTheDragon · 28/11/2025 17:32

maybe we ought to prioritise our own ‘cultural context’ (basic human rights and equalities) and come up with an appropriate term? It’s been done in the case of female genital mutilation, rather than the ‘cultural’ euphemism ‘female circumcision’.

Not that I can think of anything which accurately describes the depravity of the perpetrators.

Sexual assault?

ErrolTheDragon · 28/11/2025 17:37

Doggielovecharlotte · 28/11/2025 17:34

Sexual assault?

no, it’s not that.Confused

Doggielovecharlotte · 28/11/2025 17:44

ErrolTheDragon · 28/11/2025 17:37

no, it’s not that.Confused

I think cutting off part of someone’s sexual organs would come under that!

Tadpolesinponds · 28/11/2025 17:55

logiccalls · 28/11/2025 14:17

Females are not real people, in the minds of virtually all males. There is statistical evidence.. E.g. When asked to vote for a fellow student, boys "couldn't" vote at all if there was no male candidate. Adult males feel the same about female politicians: It isn't impossible to vote for them, but far easier and 'more natural' to vote for a fellow male.

A giant survey in Canada discovered that male orthopaedic surgeons prioritised other males, so males got quicker and better treatment than female patients. Meanwhile, the female surgeons' results and records proved no bias at all.

The woman who was dumped, with the kids, when her husband found another woman, and who resented it, used the only method of revenge available to her, when she poisoned some in-laws in Australia: That single case got worldwide, obsessive, attention. Meanwhile, every day and in every country, men kill women for daring to leave them. It is so commonplace nobody bothers toremark upon it. i.e. She was his possession, and had no right to escape her owner.

And, for males, there are hundreds of ways to kill females, including bare hands. They can and do use poison, in roughly the same numbers as women do, but for women, their 'role' is to prepare and serve food to their owners and the children of their owners, so it is deeply disturbing to the 'correct' world view, if even one uppity women thinks she can deny her proper duties and obligations.

A lot of the hostility to women having reproductive control comes from the same standardised world view. that males have autonomy, and females have servility.

Are you referring to this horrific case in which an Australian woman, who had already made several attempts to poison her former husband, then attempted to murder his parents, uncle and aunt (and succeeded in killing 3 of them) with poisonous mushrooms? I'm pretty sure that case would have got a lot of attention if the murderer had been a man, to be honest. Australian woman guilty of murdering relatives with toxic mushroom meal - BBC News

Erin Patterson wearing glasses and a grey knit top looks at the camera

Australian woman guilty of murdering relatives with toxic mushroom meal

A jury has found Erin Patterson intentionally killed three people with home-cooked beef Wellingtons.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdezzxnn7kjo

coxesorangepippin · 28/11/2025 17:57

Because they are worth less than men

Luckyingame · 28/11/2025 18:17

Reason?
Men.
Why not treat them the same way as they treated their victim?

ginasevern · 28/11/2025 18:20

@lechiffre55 "I'd like to see all those men hang for what they did. Lets see how 'honourable' you feel dangling from a noose. I would happily be the one that pulls the lever to the drop."

Nah, they'll get to see Alah sooner which is desirable and a privilege.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 28/11/2025 18:23

I’d like a different term. Cultural Femicide, perhaps.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 28/11/2025 18:38

Cultural filicide. Soricide?

IwantToRetire · 28/11/2025 18:58

ErrolTheDragon · 28/11/2025 17:05

I think so. Also various other ‘crimes’ such as apostasy or being disabled.
but the vast majority are femicides. So, not ‘always’ women but mostly.

There have been cases when younger men have been killed for "dishonouring" the faminly.

But yes as a patriarchal concept, it is nearly always women.

What is strange though is that women who are not part of any particular religious group who get killed for not conforming to family expectations, dont get called "honour" killings.

IwantToRetire · 28/11/2025 19:01

MWNUK calls for inclusive consultation on any legal definition of honour-based abuse

Muslim Women’s Network UK (MWNUK) welcomes the government’s announcement to introduce a new legal definition of honour-based abuse and its commitment to strengthen measures to tackle this issue. However, we strongly urge the government to hold an inclusive consultation process before finalising the definition.

MWNUK CEO, Baroness Shaista Gohir, said: "Honour-based abuse is complex, deeply rooted in cultural and social dynamics, and affects diverse communities in different ways. Survivors, grassroots / specialist organisations and frontline professionals, must have the opportunity to shape this definition and the accompanying guidance. Without their voices, we risk creating a framework that fails to reflect the lived realities of those most affected. I urge the government to launch a formal consultation to ensure this critical policy change is informed, inclusive, and effective."

Full press release at https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/mediaStatmentDetail.php?id=345

Muslim Women Network

Muslim Women Network

https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/mediaStatmentDetail.php?id=345

ErrolTheDragon · 28/11/2025 19:16

IwantToRetire · 28/11/2025 19:01

MWNUK calls for inclusive consultation on any legal definition of honour-based abuse

Muslim Women’s Network UK (MWNUK) welcomes the government’s announcement to introduce a new legal definition of honour-based abuse and its commitment to strengthen measures to tackle this issue. However, we strongly urge the government to hold an inclusive consultation process before finalising the definition.

MWNUK CEO, Baroness Shaista Gohir, said: "Honour-based abuse is complex, deeply rooted in cultural and social dynamics, and affects diverse communities in different ways. Survivors, grassroots / specialist organisations and frontline professionals, must have the opportunity to shape this definition and the accompanying guidance. Without their voices, we risk creating a framework that fails to reflect the lived realities of those most affected. I urge the government to launch a formal consultation to ensure this critical policy change is informed, inclusive, and effective."

Full press release at https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/mediaStatmentDetail.php?id=345

its worth reading the whole thing.
She points out that most of the violence and murder committed against minority women is domestic abuse.

IwantToRetire · 28/11/2025 19:22

ErrolTheDragon · 28/11/2025 19:16

its worth reading the whole thing.
She points out that most of the violence and murder committed against minority women is domestic abuse.

I think the point about domestic violence is so important.

And dont want to derail this thread as such an important issue, but this is the week the CPS realised the link to domestic violence. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5450170-cps-have-only-just-realised-there-is-an-overlap-of-domestic-abuse-across-key-vawg-crimes-including-rape-strangulation-honour-based-abuse-harassment-stalking-and-revenge-porn

edited to add that although victims and survivors should not be ignored, when will the start talking about the real problem The perpetrators.

There is still this huge gap between recognising the violence but refusing the recognise the source / cause of the problem. Men.

newtlover · 28/11/2025 19:40

https://s40641.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/Male-Victims-Spotlight-Report-2.pdf

this is a report on male victims of HBV, from my brief reading I get the impression they are less likely to suffer serious violence (be killed) and that is the same as domestic abuse- men suffer too but not as commonly or as seriously

Its important to name these crimes for what they are. Just as we don't simply call domestic violence 'violence'- there are extra dynamics at play and we need to take those into account when catching perpetrators and protecting victim/survivors. No one thinks that calling it honour based violence excuses or diminishes it.

https://s40641.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/Male-Victims-Spotlight-Report-2.pdf

FrippEnos · 28/11/2025 19:46

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 28/11/2025 11:59

‘Western for me, not for thee’ is the case for these men.

This ^.

And put so much more succinctly than I would have done.

Rightsraptor · 29/11/2025 08:27

The straightforward answer to the question about why it's women killed in so-called 'honour killings' is because the honour of the family is invested in its women. The men of the family don't carry that burden.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 29/11/2025 09:03

No, they think all the honour is the men’s, and the women are tarnishing it.

What about ‘dishonour violence’.