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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why the NHS puberty blocker trial is appalling

1000 replies

Soontobe60 · 16/11/2025 14:43

Stella O’Malley from Genspect telling it like it is - that a state endorsed trial of puberty blockers for gender dysphoric children should NOT go ahead.
the NHS are not walking into this nightmare blindly - there are enough experts out there telling them what will happen happen to these children if they’re given these life changing drugs.
https://x.com/genspect/status/1989896741358113127?s=61&t=gKvvk-rWmOlYFGMZN8QVvQ

Genspect (@genspect) on X

In a conversation about the Next Generation, podcast host Elliot Bewick @elliotbewick talks with @stellaomalley3 : “This won't be puberty because their reproductive system won't be awakened, it will be a chemical insurgents into their body…and so they...

https://x.com/genspect/status/1989896741358113127?s=61&t=gKvvk-rWmOlYFGMZN8QVvQ

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nauticant · 22/11/2025 08:09

She's in favour. Possibly having the view on the quiet that it's the lesser of a number of evils.

RedToothBrush · 22/11/2025 08:15

They will all have reached puberty, but will be younger than 16 - and will have to meet strict criteria, undergo intensive medical and psychological screening before they are allowed to start taking puberty blockers.

A team of specialist NHS doctors must have a full picture of the young person's wellbeing before deciding if they think they are suitable for the treatment.

The young person will also have to show they have a good enough understanding of the potential impact of taking puberty blockers to give their consent, and their parent or legal guardian will need to agree. They will be provided with ongoing psychological support.

Anyone who has actually read Hannah Barnes book about the Tavistock and the failings there is currently scratching their head wondering where the hell they are going to find 220 kids who passed this threshold without doing exactly the same as the Tavistock.

Maybe that's the point.

Otherwise they are going to replicate the Tavistock and sacrifice 220 children to this.

There is not an alternative scenario.

Signalbox · 22/11/2025 08:17

WarriorN · 22/11/2025 07:20

any child not on the trial is the control i suppose as children will know exactly if it’s working or not.

But there would surely need to be records of them also, and their outcomes …?

Dies anyone have the link to the recent discussion that was recorded with dr David bell and others about this? I never watched it

I doubt there will be a control group for “ethical” reasons. A control would need to be a group of children who desperately wanted to take PB but were given a placebo instead. Obviously that wouldn’t work because their puberty would continue to develop. Those children are unlikely to continue to consent to continuing in the trial so data collection not possible.

nauticant · 22/11/2025 08:20

I suppose part of the thinking is to re-run the experiment at the Tavistock only this time to have established baselines for the subjects, to do some monitoring along the way, and then, at a point that's far too early to have measured real and long-term physical impacts, to weigh those yet to emerge impacts against how pleased the subjects are to have had the gold star of "gender affirming" medical treatment. I wonder how objective the subjects and their families will be when reporting the benefits they believe they've experienced?

Skyellaskerry · 22/11/2025 08:22

Surely investigating the “loss” of the Tavistock records and following up on those who went through it would be far more useful and cheaper than the apparently £10m cost of this new research. We all know that in the digital age records will be available somehow. Even if not 100% it is unbelievable that None are available, or you could not find former patients through other means.

nauticant · 22/11/2025 08:23

Signalbox · 22/11/2025 08:17

I doubt there will be a control group for “ethical” reasons. A control would need to be a group of children who desperately wanted to take PB but were given a placebo instead. Obviously that wouldn’t work because their puberty would continue to develop. Those children are unlikely to continue to consent to continuing in the trial so data collection not possible.

Also, you'd end up with the children who'd been given PBs reporting how great the treatment was and the children who'd not maybe reporting that their lives are now shit or, having grown out of their distress, giving a very positive report. This would all be too arbitrary.

Signalbox · 22/11/2025 08:23

FinallyASunnyDay · 22/11/2025 07:47

Utterly horrified that this has passed ethics and will be recruiting- and that is BEFORE any longitudinal studies. I felt certain that this could never get ethics approval.

It’s a shocker isn’t it? I felt certain that ethics would say that all the previous data from the experiments on children at the Tavistock would need to be collected and analysed before this study could possibly go ahead. The data already exists.

RedToothBrush · 22/11/2025 08:27

On the basis of this section from Hannah Barnes book alone (there are lots more reasons in the book about how pretty much every child they put on blockers wouldn't meet the threshold for the trial they are proposing) I expect it to be legally challenged.

The evidence suggests this is just going to be homosexual children being experimented on which is somewhat problematic.

Why the NHS puberty blocker trial is appalling
Why the NHS puberty blocker trial is appalling
nauticant · 22/11/2025 08:28

It all smacks of it being unconscionable to pull the rug on the most super special of children and to configure things so at least some of them get what they believe is the only thing that will make them "happy". I'm not sure this is the proper role for pediatric medicine.

Signalbox · 22/11/2025 08:33

I wonder how the selection of children will take place and on what basis they will exclude children from the experiment? Will they exclude autistic / same sex attracted / mentally unwell children or those in care, with a history of bullying or sexual abuse. If they exclude on that basis you can guarantee there would be no child left for them to experiment on.

EasternStandard · 22/11/2025 08:35

I can’t believe we’re back here again with a trial. I really don’t know how adults can be pushing this.

RedToothBrush · 22/11/2025 08:45

Signalbox · 22/11/2025 08:33

I wonder how the selection of children will take place and on what basis they will exclude children from the experiment? Will they exclude autistic / same sex attracted / mentally unwell children or those in care, with a history of bullying or sexual abuse. If they exclude on that basis you can guarantee there would be no child left for them to experiment on.

Exactly. This is why it's ultimately bonkers.

Is it deliberately being set up to fail or are they willfully and deliberately going to repeat the Tavistock and walk straight into another medical scandal?

I think it's still going to have to get through court as it will almost certainly be challenged legally by gay rights groups though before it even gets to that point.

RedToothBrush · 22/11/2025 08:49

What are the ethics here in asking a 10 or 11 year old child their sexuality?

A prepubescent child often doesn't have those kid of feelings - precisely because they are prepubescent.

It makes the study immediately questionable as it's sexualising young children if they decide to go down that route.

CarefulN0w · 22/11/2025 08:49

Article in today’s Times below. I must admit that I had assumed the trial wouldn’t get ethics approval and am horrified that it has even got this far. I can only hope there are some properly stringent safeguards at the recruitment stage, but it’s not looking good.

Children as young as 10 to be given puberty blockers in NHS trial

https://www.thetimes.com/article/fab234e1-d2d3-416d-8737-c4245f0378e7?shareToken=a63ef8a9a6062d7ade9d3de34c5431d9

Children as young as 10 to be given puberty blockers in NHS trial

More than half of participants who identify as transgender will be injected with a hormone-suppressing drug that pauses physical changes

https://www.thetimes.com/article/fab234e1-d2d3-416d-8737-c4245f0378e7?shareToken=a63ef8a9a6062d7ade9d3de34c5431d9

ProfessorIDareSay · 22/11/2025 08:53

https://x.com/hannahsbee/status/1992141562126467476?s=20

Archive link <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2025.11.22-074256/www.newstatesman.com/politics/2025/11/a-new-clinical-trial-will-test-puberty-blockers-on-children" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here

Why the NHS puberty blocker trial is appalling
ProfessorIDareSay · 22/11/2025 08:54

Sorry, I just cannot get archive links to post. I'm sure someone knows how! But the link seems to go to a free article anyway.

MyThreeWords · 22/11/2025 08:55

Might it be possible to think of this trial as being not narrowly an investigation of the effects of the actual prescription of puberty blockers, but, more broadly, the investigation of a treatment pathway that included such prescription as one of the theoretically possible outcomes?

In other words, the study is at least partly investigating whether the criteria for prescribing the meds would ever be met. Instead of viewing those criteria as the criteria for admission to the study, could we think of them as the criteria that must be met before studied children are prescribed puberty blocking meds?

In that case, the experiment is simply that of giving gender dysphoric children the adequate assessment, therapy, etc, that was lacking at Tavistock and seeing what the upshot of that would be. It would be a trial of puberty blockers only in the sense that they wouldn't be ruled out in advance, and would come into play if and only if it turned out that there ever were grounds for prescribing them.

If and only if there were ever grounds for prescribing them, the study would then have a second phase of long-term follow up of the effects of that decision.

That would make the study ethical, because it is essentially asking the question "What happens if you actually give these children the care that they need?"

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 22/11/2025 08:55

Hannah Barnes’ tweet:

NEW: Puberty blocker trial for children gets green light, but many questions remain. Sadly, my request to attend a media briefing & put some of them to study leads was turned down on the grounds I’m not a ‘specialist’ health/science journalist.

ArabellaSaurus · 22/11/2025 08:55

'The trial will only be open to those under 16 who are patients at specialist NHS Children and Young People’s Gender Services. A second study, comparing the brain health of those receiving puberty suppression with those who are not, will also be undertaken. '

ArabellaSaurus · 22/11/2025 08:56

Who the fuck would volunteer their child for this?!

RedToothBrush · 22/11/2025 08:57

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 22/11/2025 08:55

Hannah Barnes’ tweet:

NEW: Puberty blocker trial for children gets green light, but many questions remain. Sadly, my request to attend a media briefing & put some of them to study leads was turned down on the grounds I’m not a ‘specialist’ health/science journalist.

Wow!

So they are going after the scandal version then.

They are out of their minds excluding Barnes.

nauticant · 22/11/2025 08:57

ArabellaSaurus · 22/11/2025 08:56

Who the fuck would volunteer their child for this?!

A parent who is a true believer in the necessity and benefits of puberty blockers.

ArabellaSaurus · 22/11/2025 09:00

What parent would want to stop their child from growing and developing?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 22/11/2025 09:00

No animal trials and no attempt to find the data on all the children who have already been put through this at the Tavistock.

I could weep. Or vomit. Or both.

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