Why the NHS puberty blocker trial is appalling

[Soontobe60]

Stella O’Malley from Genspect telling it like it is - that a state endorsed trial of puberty blockers for gender dysphoric children should NOT go ahead.
the NHS are not walking into this nightmare blindly - there are enough experts out there telling them what will happen happen to these children if they’re given these life changing drugs.
https://x.com/genspect/status/1989896741358113127?s=61&t=gKvvk-rWmOlYFGMZN8QVvQ

The 'PAGES-Y' questionnaire has four authors.

Marco A. Hidalgo (they/he) was also author with Johanna Olson-Kennedy,Diane Ehrensaft on this paper with the absurd conclusion that because PBs showed no benefit in mental health, they probably improved it:

'Mental and Emotional Health of Youth after 24 months of Gender-Affirming Medical Care Initiated with Pubertal Suppression'

'Conclusion Participants initiating medical interventions for gender dysphoria with GnRHas have self- and parent-reported psychological and emotional health comparable with the population of adolescents at large, which remains relatively stable over 24 months. Given that the mental health of youth with gender dysphoria who are older is often poor, it is likely that puberty blockers prevent the deterioration of mental health.'

'Robert Garofalo, MD, MPH, former GLMA President (2005-2007), proudly standing up for trans rights today at today's Freedom to Be Ourselves rally'

These people are activists. They are also insane.

THIS

I don't know where to begin with all of this. Whatever I read is generating question after question so I've just chosen one that I don't think has been talked about yet.

@ArabellaSaurus (14:55) 'Before deciding whether to take part, each young person will have a series of meetings with clinicians, both individually and together with their parent(s) or legal guardian(s). These meetings will cover the known and unknown possible benefits and risks of puberty suppressing treatment, potential long-term effects and alternative treatment options. Doctors will discuss fertility, including possible long-term effects and options for fertility preservation such as sperm or egg storage. Young people will have the option to see a fertility specialist. '

I've just been searching for info about fertility preservation in children with cancer. I assumed that this was an area of medicine where there would have been some established research. I came across this recent uk article which explains in lay terms the options currently available and the experimental uncertainties. https://www.cclg.org.uk/magazine-articles/hope-future-preserving-fertility-young-cancer-patients

For physically healthy girls on the new trial the fertility preservation option seems to be to have keyhole surgery to have a section of an ovary or a whole ovary removed for later egg collection. This is less reliable than embryo storage. (For boys, they have to be able, which might prove difficult if they hate their bodies, to provide sample(s) of healthy sperm.)

Put aside the implications of a girl being able to understand all this at a level where she can give informed consent and then having anaesthetic and (partial) healthy organ removal to retain the possibility that she might want a child in the future. What about practicalities such as the physical and financial costs of having to have IVF or clinic controlled insemination as an adult mother-to-be (whether or not she is still identifying as trans or is the female partner of someone who is/was)? Will the NHS be funding this in the near future let alone 25 years down the line?

The Guys and St Thomas' website says 'There is no special funding for fertility treatment for couples where either partner has previously had cancer. The eligibility criteria for funding are the same as for any other person seeking fertility treatment. If you do not meet these criteria, fertility treatment has to be self-funded'.(www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/health-information/fertility-preservation-for-women/fertility-after-chemotherapy-or-radiotherapy) I wonder if this is going to be discussed with girls on the trial and their parents?

I can't believe our NHS is condoning a trial that will damage healthy childrens bodies. It is so unethical. Puberty is the ONE process guaranteed to make children mature and accept their bodies-why on earth would anyone deprive a child of such an essential phase of life?

The young person will also have to show they have a good enough understanding of the potential impact of taking puberty blockers to give their consent

I’ve known 20 something year old TWs agree blithely agree that they didn’t want children when questioned about impacts of starting cross sex hormones and then later talk about names they’d like for their future children.

There really is a very worrying disconnect between hearing the risks and understanding the actual impact. I’ve seen this in much older adults as well and find the whole concept of ‘informed’ consent quite problematic.

I’d suggest reading @FinallyASunnyDaypost on what’s happening and who to write to, it’s very informative.

I see Dr David Bell’s name as underpinning the information.

I will email even though I feel some discomfort at doing so as they are not politicians. I’m not sure which person is best though.

I can’t actually believe this is going ahead, it’s truly wicked and wrong.

And we are supposed to believe that this monstrous exercise is not just about mutilating children who don't conform to sexist stereotypes?

What happened to critical thinking?

one of my sisters would have been extremely vulnerable to that questionnaire. She wanted to be a boy until she was about 14.

There were really obvious family reasons for this to do with birth order, a boy being born after several girls, my sister being fat until she grew about 5” and a sexist culture.

However, those questionnaires go nowhere near any of those issues.

Monstrous.

I listened to the PI of the project as she was interviewed on the Today programme this morning. She was going on and on about giving reassurances to parents and gender-questioning children.

What child doesn’t question the changes in their body at puberty. And particularly girls and effeminate boys.

I made a thread a while back about egg freezing. The stats are absolutely shocking.

Put bluntly, it's highly unlikely that it will ever result in a live birth:

'Lord Winston spoke about egg freezing in June last year:

"...It so happens that, as a kind of hobby, I regularly submit a Written Question—about every three years—to find out the results of egg freezing in the United Kingdom compared to those internationally. According to the latest results from the five years up to the pandemic, 75,958 eggs were subjected to thawing after freezing. Of these—I will round up the figures for speed—13,000 thawed, 11,400 were fertilised, 7,257 produced an embryo, 1,695 were considered suitable for an embryo transfer, 288 of the women got pregnant after transfer, 205 gave birth, and 80 pregnancies were lost as a result of miscarriage. In spite of the HFEA saying on its website that the effects are improving, when you look at these figures in detail you see that they are not.

Only last week, on BBC radio, a well-known individual who was a senior member of the HFEA said that the success rate of egg freezing is 18%. It is nothing like that. In fact, according to the figures I have just given the House, less than 0.2% of eggs that are subjected to thawing result in a live birth, and only 1.7% of eggs that are fertilised become a baby. Women do not want miscarriages, and if there is any violence that you can talk about, having a miscarriage is certainly one of them. It is really quite shocking that this goes on and that this kind of information is bandied around in this way. It is not acceptable, and it needs to be done much more carefully by the Government, because the Government are responsible for the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority. It needs to make certain that the website says what the success rate is. It does not say what the success rate is; it just says it is improving.

Moreover, the website says that egg freezing is completely safe. How can we say that? It has been going for only 20 years, and it will be a long time before these children can be followed up as adults. It probably is safe but we do not know that. The high miscarriage rate is one certain concern that I have. Clinics are telling patients—I hear this again and again—that if you come to the clinic you have a 60% chance of having your eggs frozen, with a successful baby afterwards. This is a scandal, and it needs to be halted and taken under control.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5027397-egg-freezing-clinics-give-misleading-information

My life would be meaningless if I would have to live as my assigned sex.

If the children are under the impression that they can live as anything other than their sex, then they aren't in a position to give informed consent.

Even with ethical approval, I am struggling to understand how anyone could reasonably prescribe these drugs, even as part of a clinical trial.

It’s not like cardiovascular disease, where clinical trials are seeking to prevent major events, or cancer where the aim might be symptom relief or improvement in mortality. How could anyone with a conscience be anywhere near this?

a girl being able to understand all this at a level where she can give informed consent and then having anaesthetic and (partial) healthy organ removal

If surgery for under 18s as 'gender affirming' surgery is banned, then how would this be permitted? For a healthy girl, aged between 11 and 15, to have her ovary surgically removed?

Two tier…

Agree 💯

And what was found?

So not a good thing to do then!

Thank you for this. This is another horrendous aspect I hadn't considered.

And this:

(For boys, they have to be able, which might prove difficult if they hate their bodies, to provide sample(s) of healthy sperm.)

A boy of 11 or 12 (or any age actually) being asked to do this, regardless of their feelings about their body, makes me feel ill.

In the case of cancer, where it is unavoidable, I can understand it, but for the sake of this monstrosity, it is child abuse. What the hell are these people thinking??

'Peripubertal GnRHa impaired long-term spatial memory.
•
This impairment was not reversed after discontinuing GnRHa-treatment.
•
Spatial orientation and learning performance remained unaffected following GnRHa withdrawal.
•
Speed of progression through these spatial tasks was altered after discontinuing GnRHa.
•
GnRH irreversibly alters these cognitive functions during critical window of development.'
...

'The results of this study when considered with those of Hough et al., 2016 suggest that there is a critical period of brain development associated with the peripubertal period. For early onset GD, GnRHa is prescribed from childhood, throughout the adolescent period and into early adulthood, when an informed decision can be made about gender reassignment. '

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5333793/

Thanks so much for this. I'd taken a break from following the discussions on this board and so I hadn't seen that thread.

Yes, the stats are dire. I hadn't realised. I really feel for women and girls with cancer who are having to deal with this on top of their diagnoses.

That's a very good point you just made about U18s being banned from having gender affirming surgery. As I understand it, for girls there's no other option for (0.2%) 'fertility preservation'.

This is so upsetting, I am tearing up just thinking about it.
Those kids 😭
How could a doctor inject this into a healthy Y5 body and sleep that night?

Exactly this.

Well it seems like the idea of “preserving fertility” in these children is every sort of nonsense. What are these people on?

This is such a tragedy for the children involved.

Bear in mind also, that if a girl is puberty blocked at Tanner stage 2, and has eggs surgically removed and frozen, because her uterus, vagina, vulva etc will not mature beyond Tanner stage 2, the removed eggs can only really be used for someone else. Like a surrogate.

The whole point of puberty in girls is to mature the uterus and vagina to enable the carrying and birthing of a baby. Without that, there’s nowhere worthwhile to put the embryos from thawed eggs.