Egg freezing clinics give 'misleading' information

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68505321

'The Fertility Network was reacting to BBC analysis that found 41% of clinics offering the service privately could be breaching advertising guidance.
The watchdog which sets guidance says clinics "must not give false or misleading information".
It comes as a record number of people are freezing their eggs.
The UK fertility regulator, the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA), also said it was concerned about the information given to those considering egg freezing.'
...
'Few patients in the UK have come back to use their frozen eggs, but for those who do, the success rates are slightly lower than IVF using fresh eggs - which is about 20-30% per round depending on age. It could be as low as 5% for people in their 40s, according to HFEA.'
...
'Egg freezing for non-medical reasons, also known as social egg freezing, is an increasingly popular method for women to preserve their fertility in order to have children at a later date.
The procedure is not normally available on the NHS unless you are having medical treatment which could affect your fertility, such as chemotherapy or gender-reassignment.'

[AceOfCups]

Egg freezing is a bit scammy. My friend froze her eggs and the clinic was very enthusiastic about her as a client, but when she tried to use them a few years later they completely changed their tune and tried to talk her out of IVF because there was basically zero chance of it working and they clearly did not want her affecting their IVF statistics.

the egg freezing cost her thousands, which they were happy to take from her initially.

[ATerrorofLeftovers]

Egg freezing really isn’t the fail safe people seem to think it is. Clinics need to be honest about the very low pregnancy rates from them.

[ArabellaScott]

Yes, the fact that large sums of money are being taken off women under dubious pretences should be making more headlines, imo. These decisions are life altering. Not least the 'gender affirming' pathway, which is likely to lead to sterility.

[Crushed23]

I think most people who do social egg freezing know that it’s not guaranteed to be successful, but they do it to increase their chance of IVF success later in life. I listened to podcast after podcast and read article and after article when I came to the decision to embark on egg freezing. My chances of a live pregnancy are only 65% or thereabouts (for the number of eggs and my age) but I’m happy with that. The alternative, in my mind, would be rushing into a relationship / settling with someone I don’t truly love just to get pregnant before my fertility window shuts, and I don’t fancy that.

[BlessedKali]

I don't get it though, if your fertility window shuts, surely it's not just a matter of producing/having eggs, but the whole complex biological system itself. Can a female body that no longer has any eggs and is entering/in menopause successfully support a pregnancy? What are the outcomes for any children involved?

[Cattenberg]

@BlessedKali

I don't get it though, if your fertility window shuts, surely it's not just a matter of producing/having eggs, but the whole complex biological system itself. Can a female body that no longer has any eggs and is entering/in menopause successfully support a pregnancy? What are the outcomes for any children involved?

As a woman gets older, the quality and quantity of her remaining eggs gradually declines. A 44-year-old woman might still be ovulating regularly, but be unable to get pregnant if her eggs are all of poor quality.

However, this doesn’t necessarily mean that her uterus won’t be able to support a pregnancy. Many women in their mid-40s (and older) have had successful pregnancies involving donor eggs, their own frozen embryos or even their own frozen eggs. Pregnancy in your 40s carries higher risks than it does in your 20s or early 30s, but doesn’t mean it’s impossible.

[mb2512cat]

@BlessedKali

I don't get it though, if your fertility window shuts, surely it's not just a matter of producing/having eggs, but the whole complex biological system itself. Can a female body that no longer has any eggs and is entering/in menopause successfully support a pregnancy? What are the outcomes for any children involved?

Yes, perimenopausal and menopausal women can get pregnant via ivf. I spent the ENTIRE of my 30s trying to get pregnant - I had no idea what I was in for - and finally had success at 41 and then 44, both through egg donor.

What I would say to any woman thinking of freezing her eggs is to definitely try it but think of it as a last resort. And success is highly correlated to egg age, so the younger you do it the better.

The hurdles we faced via ivf: eggs not surviving the thawing process; those that do don’t fertilise, and those that fertilise don’t survive to the day 5 blastocyst stage, which is when most clinics will put back embryos. The rate of attrition from egg to
blastocyst can be quite shocking. It’s an emotional roller coaster I was totally unprepared for. So freeze as many good quality eggs as young as you can, which is easier said than done, I know.

But on the other hand I had one friend who produced only one single egg during ivf and he’s about to turn 11 so you never know…

[Jjm1]

From a male perspective: egg freezing, if enough are harvested and say 4 or 5 embryos are created, means the ivf odds of the age frozen, which is MUCH better then trying to retrieve eggs at say 41. Men also want hope - we are wired to want to help make babies: it will be expected by men that women have banked heir mid thirties eggs - in short its a huge advantage for any woman of 36 plus in the dating game if she can say she has, vigorously frozen her eggs. I don't say this blithely, but it's also important this point is made. Think about being say 39-42 trying for a natural baby and having that comfort of knowing that you can still do ivf on some embroys from when you were, say 33-37. Takes some of the pressure off... Then if all else fails and the transfers don't take at least there are no regrets. You can then move into donor eggs as a final plan...

[Catabogus]

it will be expected by men that women have banked their mid thirties eggs

Hang on… you are saying that men will EXPECT over-mid-30s women to have frozen their eggs, before they will date them ?? Why on earth should they expect that?

[Jjm1]

Because it would increase chances of a live birth and because it will aid the relationship by reducing pressure on both sides. I can't speak for everyone but I'm giving an opinion whether popular or not. Seeing as many women do the procedure in order to 'take the pressure off' then it follows that men would be happier too with the lower pressure afforded by this back up plan. ( One of the above posts puts it well when she says 'the alternative is getting pregnant with a man I don't really love'). Of course a woman doesn't have to tell a man if she's frozen eggs or not but as the relationship develops it will likely come up as a topic. Many couples in fact bank embryos in case ivf is needed down the line. This is at core about fertility and also conversation about fertility and men, naturally are a part of that too!

[crunchermuncher]

@Jjm1

From a male perspective: egg freezing, if enough are harvested and say 4 or 5 embryos are created, means the ivf odds of the age frozen, which is MUCH better then trying to retrieve eggs at say 41. Men also want hope - we are wired to want to help make babies: it will be expected by men that women have banked heir mid thirties eggs - in short its a huge advantage for any woman of 36 plus in the dating game if she can say she has, vigorously frozen her eggs. I don't say this blithely, but it's also important this point is made. Think about being say 39-42 trying for a natural baby and having that comfort of knowing that you can still do ivf on some embroys from when you were, say 33-37. Takes some of the pressure off... Then if all else fails and the transfers don't take at least there are no regrets. You can then move into donor eggs as a final plan...

You do realise it's a little more involved than a man having one off the wrist to freeze his sperm, right?

Daily hormone injections that play havoc with your body and emotions and increase your risk of cancer then an invasive procedure to collect the eggs.

And you 'expect' this? Wow.

Its the 21st century equivalent of expecting performative femininity. Women - how dare you age!!

Perhaps you meant to say that all things being equal you would prefer to date a woman who had done this? Rather than to expect it?

[crunchermuncher]

It comes as a record number of people are freezing their eggs.

Dear BBC, 'people' are not freezing their eggs, 'women' are.

HTH.

[Ellysa]

@Jjm1

From a male perspective: egg freezing, if enough are harvested and say 4 or 5 embryos are created, means the ivf odds of the age frozen, which is MUCH better then trying to retrieve eggs at say 41. Men also want hope - we are wired to want to help make babies: it will be expected by men that women have banked heir mid thirties eggs - in short its a huge advantage for any woman of 36 plus in the dating game if she can say she has, vigorously frozen her eggs. I don't say this blithely, but it's also important this point is made. Think about being say 39-42 trying for a natural baby and having that comfort of knowing that you can still do ivf on some embroys from when you were, say 33-37. Takes some of the pressure off... Then if all else fails and the transfers don't take at least there are no regrets. You can then move into donor eggs as a final plan...

@Jjm1 I’ve had what male doctors call ‘egg retrieval’. It required weeks of daily injecting myself with drugs, a full anesthetic then surgery in which a ‘needle’ about 1cm wide is jabbed into the ovary via the vagina. That operation caused a haemorrhage and also left me in internal pain for eight months, during which time sex was impossible.

No one comes to a website called Mumsnet looking for a male perspective, and particularly not on the Feminism sex/gender board. Your opinion is ignorant and unwelcome. Go have a look in the mirror and ask yourself why your life is so empty that you’re online looking for women to mainsplain female fertility issues to.

[elbowedouttie]

@Jjm1

From a male perspective: egg freezing, if enough are harvested and say 4 or 5 embryos are created, means the ivf odds of the age frozen, which is MUCH better then trying to retrieve eggs at say 41. Men also want hope - we are wired to want to help make babies: it will be expected by men that women have banked heir mid thirties eggs - in short its a huge advantage for any woman of 36 plus in the dating game if she can say she has, vigorously frozen her eggs. I don't say this blithely, but it's also important this point is made. Think about being say 39-42 trying for a natural baby and having that comfort of knowing that you can still do ivf on some embroys from when you were, say 33-37. Takes some of the pressure off... Then if all else fails and the transfers don't take at least there are no regrets. You can then move into donor eggs as a final plan...

I also hope that men will "bank" their sperm by the time they are mid 30s given that their fertility and the quality of their sperm also declines with age.

[Jjm1]

I find your reactions over the top - if women who did it say it lessens the pressure on their potential future relationships then it stands to reason that part of the benefit is that men also will feel less pressure ( yes, it's a win-win). I'm perfectly entitled to give a view, just as you are entitled to attack me, if you wish, for having one.

[crunchermuncher]

@Jjm1

I find your reactions over the top - if women who did it say it lessens the pressure on their potential future relationships then it stands to reason that part of the benefit is that men also will feel less pressure ( yes, it's a win-win). I'm perfectly entitled to give a view, just as you are entitled to attack me, if you wish, for having one.

It's always interesting when people accuse others of having 'over the top' reactions. Yes, youre entitled to a view but other people will have a reaction to you expressing it in public - if you don't want that why post here?

Why not seek to understand why what you've posted would provoke such strong reactions, rather than dismissing women for feeling strongly?

Perhaps examine why you thought that going onto a feminist chat board to tell women what men 'expect' them to be doing with their bodies would be better received?

Perhaps look at the language you've used to tell women what they should do with their own female bodies (bodies that are different to yours and that you have never and will never experience)?

[crunchermuncher]

Or, you know, just continue to tell us off. I'm sure that'll go down well.

[ArabellaScott]

@Catabogus

it will be expected by men that women have banked their mid thirties eggs

Hang on… you are saying that men will EXPECT over-mid-30s women to have frozen their eggs, before they will date them ?? Why on earth should they expect that?

It may be useful to have a conversation with a man in the early stages of a relationship to ascertain whether he has any 'expectation' of a woman having 'banked her eggs'.

It'll be a useful indicator that he'll be an utter knob that nobody would wish to progress a relationship with. Let alone start a family with.

And indeed if he is inclined to come to the feminist board of a site called Mumsnet to let us all know what the manly expectations are.

I mean, fuck off.

[GrandmasMeatloaf]

I love the male perspective on this. On the feminist board, we are always slightly lost until that important moment when a man arrives to give us his view…. Or not

[ArabellaScott]

For context, this poster appeared on MN today and scattered a few posts on several threads related to egg freezing, in an apparent crap attempt to guilt or coerce women into thinking they ought to freeze their eggs to attract a mate.

Weak, mate. Weak.

[crunchermuncher]

Perhaps he has shares in a fertility clinic?

[ArabellaScott]

Yes, it's either money or something weirder. Whatever it is its bullshit.

[Slothtoes]

So if it’s expected then will men in their early 20s be funding women in their early 20s thousands of pounds to cover in fulll their egg retrievals and storage costs for the next 25 years?

Or are women going to have to be responsible for the costs of contraception since their teens onwards and now the fertility costs as well? The physical and emotional costs and the financial ones too?

That doesn’t sound much like taking the pressure off for women for something that benefits both partners/future partners. And if genuinely this is now expected, men should not be allowed to have sex with early 20 year olds without paying thousands upfront because actually why is this something she should have to finance alone just because odds are those men won’t be the same men she’s still with in 15, 20, 25 years time or whenever she might want to use the eggs?

It could also have interesting disruptive effects on older men moving to a younger female model in relationships. An interesting thought experiment

[Slothtoes]

Oh sorry plus the costs of multiple rounds of IVF in future with inflation costs built in. This is looking very expensive to predict decades down the line.. and these aren’t the only associated costs with having IVF whether it’s successful or not.

[Needanewname42]

Loving the male perspective that thinks it's a walk in the park. Women get the tough end of IVF - not the easy bit of the room with the magazines.