Reem Alsalem, UN Special Rapporteur on VAWAG is a fucking disgrace

[CrocsNotDocs]

I had all the goodwill in the world for her with her stance on gender ideology and was disgusted at the behind the scenes attempts to have her removed by my Australian government but she can go get fucked.

She has just stated on X that there is no evidence that rapes took place on October 7. The rapes that were filmed, live-streamed and celebrated by the perpetrators.

x.com/unsrvaw/status/1989315118358745148?s=61

Well she would say that wouldn't she, to paraphrase Mandy Rice Davies.

WTAF!

What??

I despair.

If this is true, then this is an egregious thing for someone in such a role, specifically advocating against VAWAG to say.

I’m just horrified.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-israel-hamas-sexual-violence.html

I think it was this article that highlighted that no testimonies from victims or witnesses were forthcoming. They haven’t allowed for an independent party to investigate and therefore doubt will exist because Israel has very little to no credibility left.

The UN is a disgrace and a failed organisation.

The Dinah Project has provided plenty of harrowing evidence as part of their investigation and work.

https://thedinahproject.org/

The UN has also investigated (Pramila Patten, Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict) and concluded sexual assualt and gang-rape were likely to have occured based on the evidence, including survivor testimony and forensic evidence.

Just because the survivors and witnesses haven't all shared their testimony with the New York Times and strangers on the internet, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Unfortunately not a surprise since she works for the UN which is the same with this situation. Unfortunately Jewish women being raped is just not taken seriously or minimised.

See also: the disgraceful behaviour at this year's Filia conference.

Disgusting.

She has done fantastic work regarding challenging gender ideology, which is no mean feat at the UN.

But unfortunately she has a huge blind spot so far as Israel/Gaza is concerned, which undermines the rest of her work.

She was roundly criticised for taking this stance back in the day and I had hoped she might have changed her position.

Patten and her team, tasked to gather, analyze, and verify information on conflict-related sexual violence (CRSV) from October 7 onwards, documented clear evidence of severe sexual acts such as rape, torture, and humiliation. Incidents of rape and gang rape occurred at several locations, notably the Nova music festival, Highway 232, and Kibbutz Re’im.
The team found a patten of victims, mostly women, who were partially or fully naked, their bodies shot and mutilated, across multiple locations.
While acknowledging the circumstantial nature of this evidence, the team concluded it indicates deliberate sexual violence, including sexually motivated torture and cruel treatment. The team was also convinced that this violence persists against the remaining hostages.

There are still no witness statements.
There are still no statements from victims.
There is no mention of forensics.

‘information’ and ‘circumstantial evidence’ which there is no mention of isn’t evidence.

For the record I’m not saying it happened or didn’t happen. I’m just pointing out that without Israel providing the admissible/reliable evidence to an independent investigator there will always be question marks on this.

This is appalling. The first I knew of the 7 October massacre was Shani Louk's broken body (I hope to god she was already dead) being paraded on the back of a truck, with men spitting on her and the crowds cheering. That filled me with so much rage and disgust that I've never been able to see the Gaza issue in the same way since then.

Reem Alsalem was one of my heroes until now, for her refusal to stop defending women's rights. What a huge disappointment.

What the af is your point?

Because some Israelis have raped some Palestinians, no Israeli women were raped on October 7th? Is that your argument? Its not even logical is it? The one has absolutely no effect on the other.

If someone says, I was raped, do you say, 'well, I'm afraid I don't believe you because some of your neighbors have raped some other people at some point?' You might be accused of seeming not to give a shit, don't you think?

What standard of proof would you accept?

Do you personally believe Hamas didn't rape people on 7 October?

I cant believe you are dragging this up again.

As the UN representative she is referring to the fact that Netanyahu blocked the UN from investigating which is how in terms of the UN them make reports or whatever.

Since then, and we had a thread about is, so why do we have to go through this again, a report by the Dinah Project, set up by feminists in Israel has been accepted by the UN of evidence of sexual violence against women during the attack on 7 October.

I would respect more those who keep not understanding that if you are part of an organisation, UN or whatever, you work under their rules.

Why not make a fuss about Netanyahu caring so little for women that he prioritiesed his antagonism against the UN over the rights of Israeli women.

Why not, just for once, acknowledge the work of feminist who do more than sit at a keyboard, and recognised the month long work of Israeli feminists who compiled the report.

And if you are that bothered about the UN recognising this that or the other I do hope you are spending as much time monitoring their response to the rape of women in conflict areas in Africa and Asia.

Or is only some women you care about.

Why does whether or not some Israelis raped some Palestinians have any bearing at all on whether or not some Palestinians raped some Israelis? Your argument ( apart from being deeply offensive ) is completely illogical.

Do you think Hamas committed rape on October 7th? Or do you think only Israelis rape?

I’m not sure why mumsnet decided to delete my response. It’s not offensive to question Israel’s claims when as I said there is nothing on the record to support the claims.

Unless you can provide statements, names and forensics it is fair for people to question Israel because as I said they’re not a credible source because of their own history.

Even in English criminal courts you’re allowed to used victim’s and witnesses previous convictions to cast doubt over their credibility so it’s not an alien concept.

As I said I am not saying it did or didn’t happen I am just pointing out a fact, there has been no independent investigation and no evidence forthcoming from witnesses. I am afraid ‘just because Israel says it happened’ isn’t good enough for the international community.

Hmm, I’m guessing you didn’t see any of the live-streaming? Then lucky you!

I don’t actually require the victims to relive their trauma to believe it. There was plenty of evidence of a level of sexual violence that I would not have believed among the bodies of the women who didn’t survive

They probably deleted your post because it was rape denial. Or antisemitism. Just a wild guess.

I'll ask you again as you still haven't answered. Why does the fact that some Israelis have raped Palestinians make the women who say they were raped on 7 October not credible? What does one have to do with the other people? Separate people, separate crimes. Unless of course, you think the fact that some Israelis have raped means that other, unrelated Israeli women are lying. Is that what you think? Would you apply that to other nationalities or just Israelis?

And what standard of proof would you accept, seeing as you dont accept the Dinah report?

Yes. It didn’t need a great deal of consideration to see both the evidence of rape, and the enthusiastic cheering of the onlookers. I have struggled to be impartial since. That video was animalistic.

Of course not everything is black and white. But when a socially regressive band of terrorists violently attack a group of civilians and there are accusations of rape, on balance of probabilities rape probably occurred.

And when an Arab whose job it is to protect women decides for some reason to make it a priority to publicly imply that the Jews are actually just lying about this, on balance of probabilities she is an appalling antisemite.

Perhaps you haven’t been on Mumsnet long enough to remember the We Believe You campaign.
It is not in the spirit of Mumsnet to discuss rape with the starting presumption women are lying.
This also applies to Jewish women.