UK man challenges refusal of Irish citizenship to his child on the basis that he is not the mother

[ArabellaSaurus]

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2025/1112/1543524-irish-citizenship-court/

'A UK trans woman, who used her frozen sperm to have a baby with her wife, has been granted permission to bring a High Court challenge against a refusal by the State to grant Irish citizenship to the child on the basis that she is not the biological mother.
The woman - who has Irish citizenship while her wife does not - submits that if she has to claim to be the "father" of the child as part of the application, it would be an "offensive, discriminatory and unjust attack" on her person, gender identity and legal status.'

'In submissions to the High Court the woman, who was born male, states that she is a UK resident but with Irish citizenship through her own lineage.
The submissions state that the woman had stored sperm with a UK fertility clinic, intending it to be used at a future date. She changed her name and transitioned from a man to a woman under UK law, receiving a UK gender recognition certificate.
The woman married her female partner and frozen sperm was then used to have a baby with her wife by an IVF procedure at a UK clinic.
The woman says she fears any UK withdrawal from the European Convention on Human Rights would mean her family could lose its protections and status in that country.
It is submitted by the woman that her child was refused entry into the foreign births registry - thereby denying Irish citizenship - as the woman was not the biological mother of the child and because her wife, who gave birth to the child, was not an Irish citizen.
The woman submitted that the Department of Foreign Affairs informed her that "under Irish law, as applied to date, the mother of the child is the woman who gives birth to the child and therefore the child would derive their citizenship through that mother".
It is claimed by the woman the department's position is that, because she is not the biological mother of the child, she therefore does not meet the requirement of an Irish citizen parent and the application cannot proceed.
The woman further submits that she could have claimed to be the "father" of the child and "could have possibly obtained citizenship by descent that way".
"I feel it would invalidate me as a trans woman, invalidate my legal status as a woman and invalidate my same-sex marriage," she said.'

I just sigh when I see this kind of time wasting. This is not an important concept. It’s all about the narcissistic man at the expense of a whole load of court time and potentially at the expense of his child, though I have little doubt that if the court says no to him, he won’t stand on his principles.

Nobody should be offended by having to stick to reality when it comes to the rights of their children. I have to wonder whether the child is loved or simply a tool in his agenda to promote his men’s rights agenda.

In addition this is the perfect example of poor reporting. Calling him a woman throughout makes the whole thing unnecessarily difficult to understand.

I hope the Irish court stands firm as the UK court did on the concept of biological mother and father. Those are concepts relating to a child, not something you can wave aside out of a selfish desire to see yourself as something you can never be.

Hes a man in a heterosexual marriage who just needs to fill in the paperwork as the child's father (which he is)

Biologically he is the father.

He can identify however the fuck he likes but his DNA and how it is provided to his child is sex based.

Exactly, court is not arguing that he is not a woman, but that he is not THE MOTHER. Which he isn't, the son has a mother, one and only biological mother like all of us.

You need a venn diagram to understand the pronouns in these articles sometimes.

Ireland has self ID in law, so hes made a mess of this for himself. He has effectively lied in the form by claiming to be the mother, which he isn't. But as self ID is law and the UK GRC will be respected, its a legal mess.
It will be interesting to see what the courts make of it, but I would be surprised if it wasn't made worse by "be kind" judges.

there is a slightly earlier thread which might have been missed, here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5443088-uk-transwoman-suing-because-irish-citizenship-not-recognised-for-his-child

Women don’t have sperm. Only men have sperm. Only women can be mothers.

What a classic example of self-absorbed narc behaviour. If he truly wanted the best for his child (dual citizenship/EU passport) he would acknowledge the biological reality of being its father. Decent parents automatically prioritise their children's needs. But no, he has to make it all about himself; "why won't the law let me lie to my child? It's so unfair."

The other thing is the EHRCrt have consistently ruled that you can lie on your documents but not on your child's or lie about who is the mother as mother is a legal term that comes with legal obligations and this man is the father not the mother

Not sure why this old thread has reappeared ,but @Hoardasurass is correct. Here's the recent final ECHR decision-
https://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/news/challenge-to-registration-of-transgender-man-as-mother-declared-inadmissible/

Transparents do not have any legal right to lie on their child's birth documents about the child's parenthood and origins and the attempts to do so are abusive to the children concerned. Men 'transwomen' remain fathers, women who call themselves 'transmen' remain mums, and both will be accurately recorded on their child's birth certificate- it's an abuse of the child's human rights and emotional welfare to lie about this.
The children of transitioners group have written about the previous different UK and ECHR legal rulings about these cruel transparents' demands on their website, (before this final ECHR decision protecting the children)...

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/paperwork/

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/six-children/

So this father is just being cruel to his kids, should be subject to a safeguarding/ social services referral for child protection!!

So - he's the child's biological father due to sperm banking prior to transition. He was clearly willing to make preparations to be a biological father prior to his surgery, possibly even prior to his current relationship and later go through the process of ivf with a female partner in order to have a child together.

It cannot come as a shock or surprise that he is the father of the child in law and reality, and will be registered as such, with the mother being the actual female parent who did all the gestating and gave birth to their child.

The child is able to claim Irish citizenship through birth right, due to paternity. But he's stalling and on this reasonably simple process because he deems telling the truth on his child's records psychologically difficult because it undermines his constructed identity and is willing to start a court process in an attempt to force 2 countries systems to introduce a legal falsehood on his child's paperwork ?

It reminds me of that FTM guardian journalist (Freddie McConnell) who accessed ivf immediately after transition and has had multiple court cases trying to force being recorded as her childrens father rather than mother on her childrens birth certificates. It looks like a deliberate attempt at wedge litigation to create a change of practice, that can then be considered as precedent

I have deliberately used correct sex pronouns in this post for clarity, as I feel any other framing would obfuscate the situation.

Freddie McConnell is indeed the transparent (whose cruel demands have now all been rejected by the courts ) who has taken her demand to lie to her children about their mother and origins on their birth certificates through the court decisions I linked to above- even after the UK supreme court ruled her demand was emotional abuse of her children, in breach of the Children Act protecting children from abuse, and the ECHR ruled against Freddie and in favour of the UN Human Rights of the child.

So once again, we have to “Validate Me” takes precedence over reality.

Quite. He is free to identify however the hell he wants and to have all the fictional paperwork that makes him happy.

As usual the sticking point for this political movement is other people's rights. And cue the wails, heel drumming, hugely expensive legal wasting of time and money to no real purpose (other than to try and gain yet more legal leverage to fuck up everything for everybody because chaos gremlining is addictive to certain personality types and MH needs), and everybody getting increasingly aware that this is not a good thing. And probably it was a mistake to be 'kind' and generous towards it in the first place.

This could be easily solved by more precise definitions. Birth parent and progenitor for example.

The words mother, father, man and woman are taken.

To be fair, mother and father are pretty precise, and universally and historically recognised.

It’s all so spectacularly selfish, ‘me, me, me’ and everybody else is just a prop.
Why is all this so very appealing to really awful people who are incapable of seeing beyond the end of their own noses?

Words are not in the ownership of any single adult or group of adults who want to limit the meaning to something only they define. When you suggest using birth parent and progenitor, you show that you have no care about the people most affected by removing the words mother, father, mummy, daddy - these people are the children who are dependent on their birth parents and progenitors. You only have to think of a toddler falling over and crying "birth parent, birth parent" , instead of "mummy, mummy" or the child coming home from school and shouting "progenitor, progenitor look at the drawing I did" and it becomes clear how narrow your inclusion really is.

Happily we are familiar enough with the word 'mother' to understand its use in this context.

It doesn't imply anything about character, personality traits, or even mothering skills.

No discrimination because this man was treated just like everybody else. The information required is factual and his ego is irrelevant.

I am suspicious that this is not "personal" but is political, as was Freddie McConnell's bid to be recorded in the Register of Births as the father of the child she birthed.

Are the trans lobby having another shot at this in Ireland, having lost in the UK?

It is worrying that the Irish High Court has given leave for a challenge by Judicial Review - if I have understood the article correctly.

From the article linked in the OP (my text in brackets to make this batshittery clearer):

"The woman (man) submitted that the Department of Foreign Affairs informed her (him) that "under Irish law, as applied to date, the mother of the child is the woman who gives birth to the child and therefore the child would derive their citizenship through that mother".

It is claimed by the woman (man) the department's position is that, because she (he) is not the biological mother of the child, she (he) therefore does not meet the requirement of an Irish citizen parent and the application cannot proceed.

The woman (man) further submits that she (he) could have claimed to be the "father" of the child and "could have possibly obtained citizenship by descent that way".

"I feel it would invalidate me as a trans woman, invalidate my legal status as a woman and invalidate my same-sex marriage," she (he) said."

"Ms Justice Sara Phelan granted the woman leave for judicial review of the matter and adjourned the case to January."

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2025/1112/1543524-irish-citizenship-court/

Ms Justice Sara Phelan has been on a bit of a mission wrt passports, parents and the Alphabet People. Maybe granting the Judicial Review in this case is yet more piggy-backing of the T onto a successful Lesbian and Gay rights campaign?

Groundbreaking legal victory 'will have profound effect on rights of same-sex couples'
High Court rules that the State cannot deny passports to children of same-sex couples involving an Irish citizen living abroad

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-41614417.html