Webberly Vs Joyce

[CassOle]

https://nitter.poast.org/mollylguinness/status/1987891680964493390#m

'Join us for the Times Radio Gender Debate at 9pm on 20th November @HJoyceGender debates @HelenWebberley, presented by @Jo_Coburn live on @TimesRadio and on our YouTube channel.'

Yes, you’re right- I was struggling to put it into words but you’ve explained what I was thinking.

That it’s not just being given information and being able to repeat it to someone else and say what it means…but to be able to relate to it. There are lots of things children can’t consent to- even if they can explain what the thing is and what the consequences might be. They can’t truly understand the consequences and won’t be able to until they are adults.

I came across this timeline today. Quite an experience reading it!

Watched both the ‘debates’ with HW.

She’s not stupid/ mad/ off her rocker. She is utterly conscienceless.

It can be hard to look straight in the eye the fact that such women exist. Even
harder to do so without trying to dilute their malevolence ( “they’re just
unaware! have been traumatised or hurt themselves! are being influenced by a
man!)

They seek excitement, pleasure and satisfaction through attention seeking,
control, notoriety, sadistic cruelty, manipulation, destructiveness. Even better if
this can be disguised under a cloak of caring.

Gender identity ideology attracts so many of these women - mothers who take
their sons abroad to be castrated, medical professionals who support men to
harass nurses in changing rooms, politicians who taunt with performative misunderstanding of basic logic, trans identified females who work behind the scenes to destroy single sex spaces, charity heads who advocate the inclusion of men where women are attempting to heal from rape……..

I have the utmost respect for Helen Joyce and understand her famous quote about the parents who will never cease fighting for this ideology, as the shame of what they have done to their children is too much to bear. Partly true. But it doesn’t recognise that there are many parents who have no such shame, that maiming their child is part of a cold and elaborate game.

I understand this as my own mother is a psychopath. I rebuilt my own life from ground up. The real freedom came when I could unequivocally see how strategic and deliberate the patterns of deception and cruelty were. Only without any illusions was I able to make good decisions and take necessary protective actions.

It must be very satisfying to HW to have extended the invitation to two such eminent and respected women and be accepted, to give them the runaround over arrangements, to patronise, interrupt and smirk at them. To use all her well practised sly and slippery linguistic techniques and deceitfulness to evoke a reaction. And to promote her business.

I hope some good comes from these ‘conversations’ even if it is simply a better understanding of how predatory and abusive women behave.

PS have a look at the conversation with Julie Bindel around the 6min 20 mark. I see the smirk, the duper’s delight, as HW talks of women who harm men and boys. Such a tell.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39450191

it’s worth noting that the Webberleys have had several websites selling prescription drugs online, and they don’t just sell ‘gender affirming’ medication.

’Doctor Matt’ in the article above is the Webberleys.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-39520785.

Even leaving aside ‘gender affirming care’, they are deeply dodgy.

Great post. I have encountered women like that- 2 in my extended family who have caused no end of harm and done it so effortlessly and without actually attracting any criticism for it. They just deny everything, twist the truth and come out looking like the injured party. They are master manipulators. Not many people can see them for who they are or are willing to acknowledge that their intentions are bad because it's so beyond the normal way of behaving. I think they have a black abyss where their souls should be.
I have tried to excuse their actions but have come to the conclusion that they are just not the same as me on some fundamental level and are probably psychopaths.

Bloody hell that woman is incoherent. This is the best advocate they can come up with for gender ideology, and she has nothing. Ref should have stopped the match after the first round (the describe sex and gender question), it was a knockout.

I wonder if it's possible, or ethical, for someone to go undercover to see exactly what she claims when prescribing to children.

Her PR team of apparently 5 doesn't seem keen to promote it, it's all such a puzzle.

That's interesting.

I haven't heard the Helen Joyce one yet, but Julie Bindel certainly managed to nail home the argument of why women need single sex spaces in the first place.

Unlike Webberley she is uniquely placed to understand exactly why traumatised women need male free environments. And the format of the show gave her ample time to explain and describe.

Not something Webberley's PR would like amplified, I imagine.

And Webberly's constant, and only, refutation of 'yes, yes but what about the menz' was bad enough. But the determination to refer to them as just a different kind of woman, and woe betide anyone who doesn't follow suit, was far too desperate an attempt to control the narrative.

it's quite interesting how she needs such a lot of PR people though.

Presumably, by now, she has an inkling of what she looks like without it.

www.spiked-online.com/2025/11/21/gendergp-is-a-menace-to-children/

The annoying thing is that to a certain extent ŵe do have self ID.

The whole affirmation model validates self ID (affirmation first is still a thing in healthcare...I'm guessing it still is in schools).

Without diagnosis you can change sex marker on your GP record and driving licence. Healthcare letters will be addressed accordigly and if stopped by the police in your car they will likely try to refer by proclaimed gender.

...and why not take a risk on entering any SS facility you like in your acquired gender? Emboldened by the knowledge that either

A. a relatively low paid/powerless receptionist or front of house staff won't stop you.

B. the SS organisation has a female classification system akin to HW. Womens Centre in my area is TWAW.

C. The final line of resistance is women in the SS facility..by nature I'm more likely to 'get out' than confront a man.

I watched both JB/HW and HJ/HW....primary thought was, why is HW doing this? I suspect others are right it is business promotion to those clinging on to a belief that has largely fallen out of favour...but both debates are a good record that this IS what institutions (said) they believed and enforced in policy. Until all the policy is unpicked HW has got a point.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/infertility/2544934-Anyone-used-Oxford-Online-Pharmacy-for-Clomid

See last post in this 2016 thread, from back in the days when HW was a GP with a 'special interest' in infertility.

Oxford Online Pharmacy is the trading name of Frosts Online Ltd, which according to the 2017 BBC report above was found to be

"prescribing quantities of asthma inhalers that were not in line with recognised best practice and without appropriate review, putting patients at risk of life-threatening exacerbation"

You could spend all day arguing the ins and outs of gender medicine, but HW's special interest is £££.

Although her current interest is more $$$

It's not the first time she's gone to the US to make money. Back in 2014 she was selling drugs to American customers at UK prices.

British pharmacy chain launches online drugstore for Maine consumers — Health — Bangor Daily News — BDN Maine

Touting “British drugs at British prices,” the Great British Drugstore sells brand-name prescription medications by mail order at prices up to 70 percent lower than in the U.S.

Customers must fill out a health questionnaire on the site, which will be reviewed by a U.K. physician with 20 years of experience, Dr. Helen Webberley. If Webberley finds no problems, she will recreate each prescription for the U.K., O’Brien said.

Interesting that there's no mention of this money-making scheme on the timeline on her website.

Odd how all her 'special interests' have turned out to be ways of making money from desperate people. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

Webberley so reminds me of Professor Umbridge. Kind of ironic in a way. That 'evil with a smile' vibe.

Yes totally. Her tinkling “nice” voice, faux smile and patronising tone. Listening to her is like nails down a blackboard.

JB has posted on Twitter that she was absolutely raging throughout. I’m actually quite relieved to read it as I have no idea how she kept calm. #Superhuman

Bloody hell.

I was going to mention this too. It’s very irresponsible- a close friend of mine had a multiple birth through being prescribed Clomid and not monitored well.

Cash cow 💯

It's a real shame that nugget wasn't picked up anywhere in the interviews - would have loved to have seen HW quizzed on that on that GBN one.

Not that she squirmed on anything anyone with a decent moral compass would have.

HW showed total callousness to rape victims - just offering a daily fail sad face towards women who are afraid of and triggered by the weapon of rape, regardless of intentions of the holder. Portraying these women's needs as insignificant in comparison to excluding a 'whole group' of trans people. But, as we're tired of saying, it's as impossible to tell which males might use their penis as a weapon.

AND YES MEN CAN BE RAPED AND 💯 DESERVE WHATEVER SPACE THEY NEED TO FEEL SAFE TOO.

JB really drummed this home well for me. But sometimes what feels missing in these debates (more widely) is that it is ONLY women who can become pregnant as a result of rape.

I completely get too, that men may also need to be around women to feel safe following a rape, BUT ONLY WITH THOSE WOMEN'S INFORMED CONSENT. And NOT those who are so debilitated from their trauma that being in the presence of someone carrying that weapon adds to their trauma.

HW kept banging on and on about how today's young people would do things differently (ie no single sex spaces) and IF they really would, I'd warrant only because the trans movement has been so incidiously successful in wrongfully and underhandly indoctrinating their unevidenced, misinformation in schools and via the bb bloody c and leftwing press! Said by a leftwinger!

Children born from rape, and their mothers, are a special category for me, who need protecting in their own right. Where is their voice in this debate? WTF are our child protection professionals who should be their mouthpiece?

I’m not convinced that today’s young people are in favour or eradicating single sex provision.

The majority of them aren’t interested in trans issues and, increasingly, those that are are unforgiving about the conflation is sex and gender.

I encounter lots of young people on a daily basis and I often ask them what the algorithms serve up to them. Very few mention trans issues and when I ask them, those that say they do encounter content, most suggest it content that is ridiculing.

Yes, you may be right (hopefully). I think there's may have been an initial period, before the recent successful challeneges, where a lot of YP were all taking it as gospel, but I hope very much you're right and the tide is turning back to common sense.

Interestingly the TRAs hate Webberly - https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1p44jhr/helen_joyce_telegraph_debate/

Those comments on reddit show the posters' dishonesty - it's like they can't help it!
"canal street in Manchester is basically straight street" how on earth are they discerning this? Seeing male-female couples who could have the same gender identities?!

Lots saying similar to "Helen’s background in genderGP is questionable". I wonder if there would be anyone who would actually say things that every trans person (including agender people etc) would agree with?

Isn't it funny seeing them describe sex realist people concerned about safeguarding as "being in a cult"? That topsy turvy world where words mean whatever you want them to mean.