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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transgender women to be banned from all female Olympic events

383 replies

Misla · 10/11/2025 11:54

About time!!

IOC likely to announce new policy early in new year after findings of a scientific review about the permanent physical advantages of being born male

The International Olympic Committee is set to announce a ban on transgender women in female competition early next year after a science-based review of evidence about permanent physical advantages of being born male.

The IOC’s guidance to Olympic sports has until now been that transgender women can compete with reduced testosterone levels but leaves it up to individual sports to decide. That is now set to change under its new president, Kirsty Coventry, who has promised to protect the female category.

The committee’s medical and scientific director, Dr Jane Thornton, last week presented to IOC members at a meeting in Lausanne the initial findings of a science-based review into the issues of transgender athletes and athletes with differences of sexual development (DSD) competing in female sport.

Free-to-read link: https://archive.is/kGpyI

Transgender women to be banned from all female Olympic events

Transgender women to be banned from all female Olympic events

IOC likely to announce new policy early in new year after findings of a scientific review about the permanent physical advantages of being born male

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/olympics/article/olympic-ioc-transgender-athlete-ban-womens-sports-zhlpfll3b

OP posts:
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21
MeridianB · 10/11/2025 16:07

SilenceInside · 10/11/2025 11:55

Bloody ridiculous that they needed a scientific review to figure this out....

This. They clearly wanted someone else to give them permission.

Sequinsoneverythingplease · 10/11/2025 16:08

This nonsense has been going on since 2015 - it’s what peaked me, the IOC regs allowing TIMs to complete against women. Ten years, the actual career span for many elite athletes. There will be women whose entire careers began, peaked and came to an end during that time, and all the while they had to compete against and/or be displaced by those cheating men. Think also of the stress, of wondering if all this training was for nothing because there might be a man in make up at the race or event when they arrived to compete. They’ll never get that time back. They’ll never achieve what they might have. It’s an absolute disgrace. I could cry thinking about it.

WallaceinAnderland · 10/11/2025 16:08

Someone posted a link to a list of places for women in sports that were taken by men. Not just the olympics but all sports.

It showed where women would have placed, what records they would have maintained or broken, if men had not been allowed to compete in the female category. Some of course lost their chance to compete at all.

It was a hugely, hugely long list. Just went on forever. Absolutely astonishing the number of women who have been displaced from their own category by men.

Helleofabore · 10/11/2025 16:12

WallaceinAnderland · 10/11/2025 16:08

Someone posted a link to a list of places for women in sports that were taken by men. Not just the olympics but all sports.

It showed where women would have placed, what records they would have maintained or broken, if men had not been allowed to compete in the female category. Some of course lost their chance to compete at all.

It was a hugely, hugely long list. Just went on forever. Absolutely astonishing the number of women who have been displaced from their own category by men.

https://hecheated.org

this one?

HeCheated.org

A Record of Male Athletes in Female Sport

https://hecheated.org

ThatCyanCat · 10/11/2025 16:17

miniaturepixieonacid · 10/11/2025 16:06

I don't think they would - or not all of them anyway? If they're on testosterone then wouldn't they also have too much added advantage to take part? Drug tests are very strict.

Nonbinary female athletes could and probably would compete in women's events. But I don't think a lot of transmen could so 'trans athletes' seems fair enough for a headline descriptor to me. Going into detail can be done in the body of an article.

Good news, anyway.

Edited

No, it's completely misleading. It's untrue. Trans people have not been banned from anything. Men are fully banned the women's division. It's irrelevant if they identify as trans or not. Trans identified men can compete in their correct sex class. Non binary and trans identified women can still compete as women as long as they aren't taking T.

Many people don't read past the headline. It needs to be accurate and saying trans people are banned is simply false. They can compete under exactly the same rules as everyone else. Trans identity is irrelevant.

JoshLymanSwagger · 10/11/2025 16:23

BonfireLady · 10/11/2025 14:16

Looking forward already to seeing how the BBC will report this. One of

a) not at all
b) smallest mention as a footnote to another story
c) it's all so complicated and we just don't know enough yet. "Let's take a look at the facts so far".... selectively, obviously... followed by an interview with a TW about how upsetting it all is to be erased from society

Edited

or, this=>

d) We're being sued by Donald Trump for over 50yrs worth of Strictly. We are applying for jobs at Sky and GBNews don't GAF about this shit anymore.

Talkinpeace · 10/11/2025 16:24

Guardian still not mentioning it at all

BBC as of now only on the sport page, not news

miniaturepixieonacid · 10/11/2025 16:26

ThatCyanCat · 10/11/2025 16:17

No, it's completely misleading. It's untrue. Trans people have not been banned from anything. Men are fully banned the women's division. It's irrelevant if they identify as trans or not. Trans identified men can compete in their correct sex class. Non binary and trans identified women can still compete as women as long as they aren't taking T.

Many people don't read past the headline. It needs to be accurate and saying trans people are banned is simply false. They can compete under exactly the same rules as everyone else. Trans identity is irrelevant.

I think the majority of transmen do take testosterone, though. And so, quite rightly transwomen and the majority of transmen are barred from women's sport. So I can't see any issue with the headline, it's true. And appropriate. I have no sympathy with a biological woman taking testosterone trying to get into a woman's sport at all. I doubt they'd even want to, in fact.

Not the nonsense that is non binary (but I think non binary athletes of both sexes would happily compete in the correct sex, they know that they're men or women, it's just gender fluff).

Maybe things have changed to the point that most transmen don't take testosterone. But I don't think so. A quick google suggests the majority still do.

ThatCyanCat · 10/11/2025 16:29

miniaturepixieonacid · 10/11/2025 16:26

I think the majority of transmen do take testosterone, though. And so, quite rightly transwomen and the majority of transmen are barred from women's sport. So I can't see any issue with the headline, it's true. And appropriate. I have no sympathy with a biological woman taking testosterone trying to get into a woman's sport at all. I doubt they'd even want to, in fact.

Not the nonsense that is non binary (but I think non binary athletes of both sexes would happily compete in the correct sex, they know that they're men or women, it's just gender fluff).

Maybe things have changed to the point that most transmen don't take testosterone. But I don't think so. A quick google suggests the majority still do.

But trans identified women aren't banned for being trans. They're banned for taking T.

Trans people simply, factually, are not banned from sports and it's untrue to say they are. Males are banned from the female category and women who take performance enhancing drugs are banned for that. It's not hard.

eyeses · 10/11/2025 16:30

What are the rules on women who have previously taken T but not while competing, and now do not take T?
Presumably it is not just hair and voice changes that are permenant.

miniaturepixieonacid · 10/11/2025 16:32

ThatCyanCat · 10/11/2025 16:29

But trans identified women aren't banned for being trans. They're banned for taking T.

Trans people simply, factually, are not banned from sports and it's untrue to say they are. Males are banned from the female category and women who take performance enhancing drugs are banned for that. It's not hard.

Not banned from sports, no. But banned from women's sports. As they should be. I've got no interest in pandering to whether they are transmen or transwomen. They're trans and they can't take part. Good headline, imo. Maybe that's too harsh but I'm past niceties. It's been too unfair for too long.

ScholesPanda · 10/11/2025 16:32

Really good news

ThatCyanCat · 10/11/2025 16:38

miniaturepixieonacid · 10/11/2025 16:32

Not banned from sports, no. But banned from women's sports. As they should be. I've got no interest in pandering to whether they are transmen or transwomen. They're trans and they can't take part. Good headline, imo. Maybe that's too harsh but I'm past niceties. It's been too unfair for too long.

They're trans and they can't take part.

They can, they just have to follow the same eligibility rules as everyone else. It's nothing to do with being trans.

It's a terrible headline because it is wrong and untrue. "Trans athletes" are not barred from women's sports. Trans identified women can take part if they're not on hormones.

"Transwomen barred from women's sports" would be accurate but it still isn't because they're trans, it's because they're men.

BountifulPantry · 10/11/2025 16:42

Helleofabore · 10/11/2025 16:12

This is an eye opener.

Helleofabore · 10/11/2025 16:43

eyeses · 10/11/2025 16:30

What are the rules on women who have previously taken T but not while competing, and now do not take T?
Presumably it is not just hair and voice changes that are permenant.

I would assume it will depend on how long the Testosterone levels stay high in their blood stream. I remember Sinead Watson saying that 4 or 5 years on, her Testosterone levels are very high still.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/11/2025 16:43

damemaggiescurledupperlip · 10/11/2025 12:22

Will they re-award past medals to the rightful winners as with doping scandal ?

I would hope both medals and prize money would be awarded to rightful winners. It shouldn't take too long to administer this because She Won already have a list.

The problems come with the types of competitions that have multiple stages with later stages gatekept by earlier stages, or where an invitation to enter one competition is conditional on getting a certain result at another competition (e.g. selection for an Olympic squad being conditional on being ranked top four at national finals). I have forgotten the name of the male weightlifter who stole a place to compete at the Olympics in the female category, but the woman who placed behind him at national level lost the opportunity to even compete at the Olympics because he stole her place. We will never know how she would have fared at the Olympics because she was robbed of her chance to prove her capabilities in international competition by a cheating man. She might have won gold, she might have come last, and we can never know. No scheme to retrospectively allocate medals or prize money can compensate women like her for the loss of her earned chance to even compete.

She Won banner: Selina Soule and Alanna Miller; picture attributed to Alliance Defending Freedom

List of Female Athletes by Sport | She Won

This website is dedicated to archiving the achievements of female athletes who were displaced by males in women’s sporting events.

https://www.shewon.org

ThatCyanCat · 10/11/2025 16:46

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/11/2025 16:43

I would hope both medals and prize money would be awarded to rightful winners. It shouldn't take too long to administer this because She Won already have a list.

The problems come with the types of competitions that have multiple stages with later stages gatekept by earlier stages, or where an invitation to enter one competition is conditional on getting a certain result at another competition (e.g. selection for an Olympic squad being conditional on being ranked top four at national finals). I have forgotten the name of the male weightlifter who stole a place to compete at the Olympics in the female category, but the woman who placed behind him at national level lost the opportunity to even compete at the Olympics because he stole her place. We will never know how she would have fared at the Olympics because she was robbed of her chance to prove her capabilities in international competition by a cheating man. She might have won gold, she might have come last, and we can never know. No scheme to retrospectively allocate medals or prize money can compensate women like her for the loss of her earned chance to even compete.

Edited

Laurel Hubbard. Took a competitive spot from a Maori woman.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 10/11/2025 16:47

Helleofabore · 10/11/2025 15:42

Just a reminder of the Olympic journey :

1992 - Dr. Arne Ljungqvist becomes a member of the IOC and continue5 to date an educational program to inform the IOC about scientific and
ethical issues related to laboratory-based gender verification.

1996 - Most major professional medical societies have passed resolutions against chromosome-based gender screening in sports.

1996-1997 - IOC World Congress on Woman and Sport passes a resolution to abandon gender verification at the Olympics. Women's Sports Foundation
publishes a policy statement against blanket chromosome screening in support of IAAF model. The Norwegian parliament outlaws gender verification in sport. The IOC Medical Commission is unconvinced and the Atlanta Committee for the Olympic Games is contractually committed to on-site, laboratory-based, gender veritication of all female althletes competing in women's events.

1997-1998 - Arguments for and against change are presented to the IOC Athlete Commission by Professor A. Liungqvist and Dr. B. Dingeon, respectively. Prince de Merode and Dr. Hay argue for their original policy of blanket gender verification at IOC-sponsored sporting events. Athletes Commission nonetheless calls for the discontinuation of the present system and rccommenda replacing it with a "reserve clause" system based on IOC Medical Commission intervention on an individualized basis, following scientific and ethical guidelines.

1999 - IOC Executive Board accepts unanimous recommendations of its Athletes Commission. Blanket gender verification screening of all female
athletes will not be conducted at the 2000 Millennia1 Games in Sydney, on a conditional basis for later review.

Importantly, for the 1996 Atlanta Olympics they surveyed the female athletes and found:

"At the time of testing, all female athletes at the Atlanta Games were offered a questionnaire written in both English and French asking whether in their view testing of females should be continued in future Olympics and whether or not
they were made anxious by the testing procedure. Of the 928 athletes who responded, 82% felt that testing should be continued and 94% indicated that they were not made anxious by the procedure. Forty-six athletes were made "anxious" by the testing requirements that preceded their competitive events.

No males were found to masquerade as females, and all females who were found to be SRY positive competed."

"Of the 928 athletes who responded, 82% felt that testing should be continued"

www.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

2003 - Stockholm Consensus proposal

"In 2003, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) Medical Commission, claiming guidance from “the best information available at the time,” decided to allow male transsexuals to compete in the women’s category. This decision was contingent upon several conditions to ensure fairness: a) the removal of their testes at least two years prior to competition; b) legal recognition as “female”; and c) hormone profiles aligned with those of natal females."

archive.today/F5HFc

2004 - May 2004 they announce that they will allowed male people who surgically removed their testes to compete in female competition. Because once you allow one group of male people in, you must equally allow the other in or you are discriminating against transgender people.

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-approves-consensus-with-regard-to-athletes-who-have-changed-sex-1

2015 -Then in 2015, a campaign group including Harper, using Harper’s flawed study (see nequals8.com web site) convinces the IOC that it is unfair discrimination to exclude any male with a transgender identity describing themselves as a woman. The IOC changes the policy to allow them.

https://nequals8.com

^https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/race-times-for-transgender-athletes^

https://stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

2016 -Then came the Rio trio in the female 800m and we start to see the testosterone suppression of the male people with DSDs come in. Semenya takes this to court in 2019. Appealed 2020. The evidence presented confirmed 5ARD and testosterone of 21 nmol/L.

2021 - 2020 Tokyo games held in 2021 was the testosterone suppressed games. Hubbard, a late 40 something male in female event where next youngest was probably a decade and a half younger, shines light on the issue.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/ioc-praises-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-transgender-athletes-olympic-debut

The IOC reacts by announcing a review.

The new guidelines released Nov 2021 devolve responsibility for policy to each discipline’s international federation. ie. They force the sporting federations to make the hard decisions that the IOC refuse to make.

https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Beyond-the-Games/Human-Rights/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf#_ga=2.219716894.621299853.1686571450-594927581.1678187184

They also reaffirm that 'inclusivity' is their over all priority. They say that safety is as well, but this is clearly contradictory when you consider boxing as an example.

The IOC is clear that they RECOGNISE that the inclusion of male athletes will be UNFAIR but their priority is inclusion. Richard Budgett said this.
The federations then develop their own policies. that have done this are : FINA, WA, UCI, IBA and WR. FIFA for instance announced a review years ago and done nothing. IBA announced their new policy in 22/23.

The WA have even stated that their new guidelines for the Olympics immediately excluded 13 males with DSDs with testosterone advantage from the competitions until those 13 male athletes chose to reduce their testosterone to 2.5 nmol/L for 2 years. 13 just in athletics competitions alone! (By the way, this reduction has already been shown to not eliminate unfair male advantage, but this is where we are at the moment.)

By the IOC removing the IBA from organising the boxing, the IOC left boxing only with the IOC inclusive guidelines.

So, we know from the announcement by Budgett from IOC in November 2021 that fairness was a lower priority to inclusion. It was along the lines of ‘we know it is unfair to include male people with pubertal advantage, but inclusion is our aim.’

And the IOC and other organisations still claim that Semenya is a 'female with naturally high testosterone' to this day. Despite the world being easily able to find the evidence presented to the CAS that Semenya is MALE with 5-ARD and had tested with a testosterone level of 21nmol/L. NO female has that level and is healthy. They are likely to be gravely ill.

And now we have some sunlight and we await official confirmation.

"No males were found to masquerade as females, and all females who were found to be SRY positive competed."

Er.

Eh?

I can't open the links - do any of them explain this WTF bit?

Panama2 · 10/11/2025 16:49

Hicupping · 10/11/2025 13:03

But no one cares about transmen. They never do.

That’s because they are women

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/11/2025 16:53

ThatCyanCat · 10/11/2025 16:46

Laurel Hubbard. Took a competitive spot from a Maori woman.

A white, judging by appearance, man shat on the hopes and hard work of an Indigenous woman? Colour me surprised...

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 10/11/2025 16:57

NoBinturongsHereMate · 10/11/2025 16:47

"No males were found to masquerade as females, and all females who were found to be SRY positive competed."

Er.

Eh?

I can't open the links - do any of them explain this WTF bit?

They're talking about external genitalia. I know it's obvious to us it's irrelevant, but it's the way they thought. 🤷‍♂️

WallaceinAnderland · 10/11/2025 17:00

Thanks @Helleofabore and @selffellatingouroborosofhate

It was the She Won list I was thinking about.

miniaturepixieonacid · 10/11/2025 17:02

ThatCyanCat · 10/11/2025 16:38

They're trans and they can't take part.

They can, they just have to follow the same eligibility rules as everyone else. It's nothing to do with being trans.

It's a terrible headline because it is wrong and untrue. "Trans athletes" are not barred from women's sports. Trans identified women can take part if they're not on hormones.

"Transwomen barred from women's sports" would be accurate but it still isn't because they're trans, it's because they're men.

I'm not sure, I'm getting confused with all the terminology now. No idea what a trans identified woman is but I'm afraid I'm kind of past caring and have no problem stating transman and transwoman because they just aren't men and women in a biological sense. I don't think it's necessary to split hairs to save the feelings of a few and headlines are meant to be simple. But I do (sort of!) apologise if that makes me a trans hating monster! 😆I'm really not, I respect all peeople living how they want to live. But not when it impinges on women's rights.

HildegardP · 10/11/2025 17:07

The faster Bach's mad, misogynistic legacy is undone the better.
However, the devil's in the detail - transgender athletes rode the coat tails of a policy crafted to "include" males with DSDs in female sporting categories. Unless that framework document is completely abandoned, males will still compete against female athletes. Yes, it's sad that males with CAIS won't be able to compete but it's also sad that I wasn't born with a potential VO2 max suitable for long-distance professional cycle races. We can't all have what we want.

HPFA · 10/11/2025 17:08

I would imagine women with CAIS will be anle to compete in the female category, as per the World Athletics decision.

I happen to think it's right morally but even people who disagree on that should look at the publicity after the athletics decision. About 90% of the objections pretended to be concerned with XY women and being able to head that off immediately was politically useful.

GC gains are not as secure as we might think, as witness the sweeping Democrat success in the USA. It's not the time to act like TRAs and insist on something the majority will find cruel and unfair.