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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Criticism of Islam is a protected belief

439 replies

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 09/11/2025 21:32

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15272771/Criticism-Islam-ruled-legally-protected-belief-man-banned-fined-thousands-pounds-social-media-posts.html

I wasn't able to find the judgment. There'll be a hearing in February but it's not clear to me whether claimant's beliefs have already been tested for Grainger compliance. Either way, the tribunal will (also) have to address objectionable manifestation (Bananarama doctrine).

I've raised it here because of the parallels with Forstater. It's a constant refrain of TRAs that permitting Forstater belief is tantamount to attacking GR as a protected characteristic. They do not understand secularism (or the SC ruling).

Of course the situation is not the same insofar as Islam has not been written into our law and Muslims don't expect the rest of us to follow its rules.

Article 9, anyone?

Criticism of Islam can be a legally protected belief, judge rules

Patrick Lee is pursuing a belief discrimination claim against the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries (IFoA) after it banned him and fined him nearly £23,000 last year over a series of tweets criticising Islam.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15272771/Criticism-Islam-ruled-legally-protected-belief-man-banned-fined-thousands-pounds-social-media-posts.html

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12
EmmyFr · 12/11/2025 11:56

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 11:48

It isnt just the Amish that live like this. Not by any means.

Amish, Mormon, you name it, or any other sect, my point stands and you know it. That's why you try to handwave or find a small detail to deflect instead of answering.

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/11/2025 11:57

EasternStandard · 12/11/2025 11:53

If you’d like to discuss Africa there are some horrendous atrocities happening in Mali and other countries. Here’s the latest but it’s been going on for some time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20e2lnvgpgo.amp

Don’t doubt it. As I said, I think religion is dangerous nonsense. Whatever religion.

Bangbangwhizzbang · 12/11/2025 11:58

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 11:47

No they arent because they cannot be of their religion and wear jeans. You can be Muslim and not wear a hijab.

Why do you think Muslim girls wear Burkas?

EmmyFr · 12/11/2025 11:59

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/11/2025 11:54

You don’t find it absolutely shocking that there is even one?

I absolutely do! It is vile! It is abhorrent! I'm just pointing out that while LGB people are still being mistreated by religions (note the plural), it is absolutely not to the same degree across said religions despite what @JadeSquid is claiming.

Shortshriftandlethal · 12/11/2025 12:00

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 11:50

Lol do they do PE? How do they eat their lunch. Lol. You guys are hysterical.

Lol. So are you.....though not quite so smart as you seem to think. Making it all up as you go along.

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/11/2025 12:01

EmmyFr · 12/11/2025 11:59

I absolutely do! It is vile! It is abhorrent! I'm just pointing out that while LGB people are still being mistreated by religions (note the plural), it is absolutely not to the same degree across said religions despite what @JadeSquid is claiming.

Fair enough. I wish none of them existed. Invented by the rich and powerful to keep the poor in place, more laterally used by men to keep women in place.

Bangbangwhizzbang · 12/11/2025 12:02

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/11/2025 12:01

Fair enough. I wish none of them existed. Invented by the rich and powerful to keep the poor in place, more laterally used by men to keep women in place.

Why do you think it would be different if they didn’t?

Shortshriftandlethal · 12/11/2025 12:03

In Islam, the predominant interpretation among Muslim scholars, supported by the Quran and authentic Hadith, is that there is an
imperative for a woman to cover her head and body in public, a practice commonly referred to as the hijab. This is considered an obligation (fard or wajib) for all Muslim women who have reached puberty.

Shortshriftandlethal · 12/11/2025 12:06

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 08:00

Of course it does. If a Christian country oppresses people.based on it's religious beliefs, then that's as bad as a Islamic country doing the same.

You are talking about particular extremist sects, not about Christianity generally.

There is no universal, imperative in contemporary Christianity for a woman to cover her head or wear any specific item of clothing. Practices and interpretations vary widely by denomination and culture; whereas in Islam there is an imperative for a woman to wear a hijab and cover her head.

quantumbutterfly · 12/11/2025 12:12

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 11:50

Lol do they do PE? How do they eat their lunch. Lol. You guys are hysterical.

And yet you haven't answered.
How do you eat, or even drink water in a burqa.
Phys ed is a lawful requirement in schools, how do you do that in a burqa.
If your answer is ' take it off', why even wear it.

You do know what a burqa is?

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:13

Shortshriftandlethal · 12/11/2025 11:54

You don't think that ending a life or destroying a life carries any emotional or moral weight?

Not when it comes to my fetuses no, i don't count it as a life. It cant survive without me. Until I decide I want to continue the pregnancy and actually have a baby, it's essentially a parasite to me. I dont count it the same as murdering a human who has been born. I count it as bodily autonomy

EasternStandard · 12/11/2025 12:13

EmmyFr · 12/11/2025 11:59

I absolutely do! It is vile! It is abhorrent! I'm just pointing out that while LGB people are still being mistreated by religions (note the plural), it is absolutely not to the same degree across said religions despite what @JadeSquid is claiming.

Yes I agree. The equivalence isn’t there across religions.

Imnobody4 · 12/11/2025 12:13

SerendipityJane · 12/11/2025 11:11

If you have to "grapple" with the essential meaning of Jesus' teaching, then you really haven't understood them.

The only "grappling" that ever needs to be done is when you are looking for loopholes.

I've not seen any philosopher in the ancient world criticise slavery as an institution.

Why do you think that is ? Once again the ancients (i.e. pre Christian) lived in a completely different world to us. Throwing concepts of "good", "evil, "harm" around is meaningless. They had no concept of human life as being in any way equal. That is very much a Christian contrivance (although the story of the last 2,000 years has been people "grappling" with the concept to explain why it doesn't apply to them).

Just to address the thread title, do you think Islam should be protected from criticism or ridicule by the law or should the law protect my freedom to say what I think about it?

All religions are equally deserving of the same protection afforded to Harry Potter, Sherlock Holmes, or Peter Pan.

Christianity is part of the Ancient World as are all the pre Christian philosophers Plato, Aristotle (very influential on Christianity), Socrates, the pre Socratics, the Sophists etc etc.
Issues around laws and morality, justice and virtue have occupied humanity way before Christianity.

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:15

quantumbutterfly · 12/11/2025 12:12

And yet you haven't answered.
How do you eat, or even drink water in a burqa.
Phys ed is a lawful requirement in schools, how do you do that in a burqa.
If your answer is ' take it off', why even wear it.

You do know what a burqa is?

Yes I do, they eat and drink just fine. Those who want it are provided a single sex environment for things they might want to do. PE is single sex. There has been alternatives to PE kits which allow free movement while preserving modesty since back in my day.

Do you live in Little Whinging?

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:16

Shortshriftandlethal · 12/11/2025 12:06

You are talking about particular extremist sects, not about Christianity generally.

There is no universal, imperative in contemporary Christianity for a woman to cover her head or wear any specific item of clothing. Practices and interpretations vary widely by denomination and culture; whereas in Islam there is an imperative for a woman to wear a hijab and cover her head.

So the abortion laws that mean that women are prosecuted for having a stillbirth in South America are not based on their adherence to Catholicism? It's based on their love of babies, I suppose.

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/11/2025 12:16

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:13

Not when it comes to my fetuses no, i don't count it as a life. It cant survive without me. Until I decide I want to continue the pregnancy and actually have a baby, it's essentially a parasite to me. I dont count it the same as murdering a human who has been born. I count it as bodily autonomy

A parasite 😳

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:18

By the way, in 16 minutes, I had 6 quotes. The intensity of the obsession with Muslims and trans people on here is kind of ridiculous.

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:19

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/11/2025 12:16

A parasite 😳

Yes something that is living off of me and changing my body and risking my health. It's a baby when I want it to be because it is my body.

quantumbutterfly · 12/11/2025 12:19

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:15

Yes I do, they eat and drink just fine. Those who want it are provided a single sex environment for things they might want to do. PE is single sex. There has been alternatives to PE kits which allow free movement while preserving modesty since back in my day.

Do you live in Little Whinging?

So no requirement to wear a burqa? Why wear it?

I find it shocking that girls in the UK are wearing burqas to school ( or anywhere for that matter). That is definitely worth criticising.

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:20

I see this is also a pro-life hub..

quantumbutterfly · 12/11/2025 12:21

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:15

Yes I do, they eat and drink just fine. Those who want it are provided a single sex environment for things they might want to do. PE is single sex. There has been alternatives to PE kits which allow free movement while preserving modesty since back in my day.

Do you live in Little Whinging?

If the only literary ref you have is Harry Potter, I recommend The Handmaid's Tale to you. I'm sure you'll love it.

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:24

quantumbutterfly · 12/11/2025 12:21

If the only literary ref you have is Harry Potter, I recommend The Handmaid's Tale to you. I'm sure you'll love it.

Why would it be my only reference? It just sounded like Petunia talking. I was also reminded of the "dirty bastard" couple in Catherine Tate, but didn't know how to refer to them.

Either way, I was prompted to think about people who live in little grey villages where they don't even have a Chinese takeaway.

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:25

And I'd think that the people who would like the Hamdsmaids tale would be the pro-lifers in here

quantumbutterfly · 12/11/2025 12:26

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:24

Why would it be my only reference? It just sounded like Petunia talking. I was also reminded of the "dirty bastard" couple in Catherine Tate, but didn't know how to refer to them.

Either way, I was prompted to think about people who live in little grey villages where they don't even have a Chinese takeaway.

Sounds like you might have a narrow world view.

EasternStandard · 12/11/2025 12:27

JadeSquid · 12/11/2025 12:25

And I'd think that the people who would like the Hamdsmaids tale would be the pro-lifers in here

’in here’ who do you mean?

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