Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread - Part 2

[fromorbit]

The YP starting conference is in the ACC in Liverpool between 29-30 November so only three weeks off. With competing factions involving Islamic conservatives, every variety of Marxist/Communist, former Labour members, trade union activists, entryists from SWP and SPEW, splitters from the Scottish Greens, trans activists and actual left wing feminists [not the nice kind] it is difficult to underplay how much controversy there is likely to be. So we will need a second thread in advance.

Thus far following the internal drama of the UKs newest left party has taken a whole thread. It has been a wild ride and the party still does not have a name.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5394557-your-corbynsultana-party-discussion-thread

Politically, yes. But otoh the strong evidence for systematic CSA, sexual abuse and financial corruption cover ups for Mountbatten and Andrew, and the increasing proof of wealth hoarding (David Dimbleby etc) make me sceptical if the UK one is a good example of that.

Spain, Denmark,Netherlands otoh - they seem mostly OK.

Otoh how well have constitutional monarchies worked in the Middle East, rather than Europe?

Great post

On this bit - Yes, the entertainment industry has always leaned left, but not the way it does now. In the old Hollywood, a left wing atheist like Henry Fonda and a right wing Christian like Jimmy Stewart could be the best of friends, and most actors weren't overtly political at all.-

I'm not so convinced by that. The McCarthy witchhunts bitterly divided Hollywood, and that was in the 50s, and clearly quite a few actors were politically involved behind the scenes. They were less overtly political in public but that was partly due to studio control.

I'm not sure you could say Hollywood as a whole leaned left then. The book When Hollywood Was Right is interesting on this.

In the 60s, with studio control declining, a lot of celebrities spoke and/or marched for civil rights, but there was more consensus on that issue in Hollywood, so less division..

I like Gove's journalism but as a politician...less impressed.

Maybe it's his perceived foreigness/cosmopolitanism that made them suspect he might not put American interests first? There was a lot of press anger about his Kenya & Indonesia connections. Also the arguments about him being a red-diaper baby.

I agree he seems to have lost his touch since...

Re Japan, it's fair to say that the extreme brutality of WW2 was fuelled by the crazy sect who controlled the army after a couple and pushed the invasions through, teaching the whole nation a warped version of the Bushido code.

Yes, Japanese colonialism was certainly brutal before, but the apocalyptic situation of WW2 was not inevitable.

If anyone watches the adult animated cartoon The Boondocks, the episode It's A Black President, Huey Freeman, is a very sharp satire of the crazy heights of Obama adulation in the US. UK was maybe just following their lead?

I agree Reagan was pro British but do you think he was a positive President overall? Not that I think Obama was , either...

Hmm...I see what you mean. Otoh which ex monarchies do you see as wanting to recreate one? Germany? France? Italy? Poland? Maybe you could argue China or Russia, but I'm not sure if it's a lot.

Good point re celebrities. Arguably there was a kind of crossover of that with some Presidents like Kennedy & Reagan who ofc had strong connections to Hollywood.

The President is seen a bit differently in the US though. They are a public figure in a much more intense way than the PM is in the UK.

Can I ask what will put the Tory party in a massive bind?

I think a lot of it is sublimimal, but I think France for one.....The French certainly love the British monarchy, as do the Italians...and the Queen ( Elizabeth 11) was referred to in France as 'The Queen'.

I agree Reagan was pro British but do you think he was a positive President overall?

No, certainly not.

Spain, Denmark, Netherlands otoh - they seem mostly OK.

Spain...well, there's Juan Carlos' money received from Saudi Arabia and salted away in Switzerland. And how much did his daughter Cristina know about her husband's financial shenanigans?

Jordan is probably one of the best examples of a more modern, and successful, constitutional monarchy in the Middle East.

American presidents ( and Russian) are treated like royalty and serve the same purpose and focus in the public imagination as a monarch. In Britain the Prime Minister is just an unmemorable officer of state by contrast - working behind a fairly standard black door on Downing Street.

Air Force One; the White House; the huge motor cavalacade that accompanies the President everywhere he goes. The position of First Lady is the equivalent of a Queen consort, having her own office and established roles and functions.

I agree ...otoh as a someone of Polish descent, I'm grateful for his role in the Iron Curtain coming down.

Honestly from what I've read about Reagan some of his biggest errors seem to have been made from ignorance, rather than malice etc. Eg. On AIDS, he was pretty OK with gay people for a man of his time, esp given his past in Hollywood which was probs a factor, but he allowed the Moral Majority to behave terribly. He should have listened to Billy Graham who refused to join it & warned evangelicals not to get too overtly political.

Agree with most of that, but don't forget Biden had that gormless tiktok prick round to the Whitehouse for a photo op. Budlight. Thinggummy.

Do I need to know Mark Ruffalo's opinion on Venezuela? Do I even have confidence that Mark Ruffalo can spell Venezuela?

😂

Good point, Jordan is a good example..

Jordan as whole has some way to go in modernising- women are still subject to guardianship laws , for one thing. But they have made a lot of progress.

Oh no, I didn't realise they had had financial corruption too.

I think also one of the Norweigan royals is being tried for rape?

Re Fonda & Stewart, apparently they had a fist fight over beliefs and then resolved to not discuss them again. Either way, it's a gold example of friendship being prioritised.

Rumours that Farage will have all his parliamentary candidates for the GE vetted and chosen towards the end of the year, he'll make a time-limited offer to the incumbent Tories he wants on his side to come over, but by a particular date, likely the end of the year.
Suggests that Farage is still mindful of a snap GE in 2027, because of economic meltdown reasons or maybe a successor to Starmer calling a GE for legitimacy.
Whatever, Tory MPs will have a real decision.
Other Tory MPs not highlighted by Farage will know they have a real battle on their hands.
This added to a digital rollout of transparent policy making as every British citizen will be invited to suggest policies. I suspect Reform already have the policy making apparatus, but this will be a nationwide barometer for how popular some policies might be.

Based on what I hear, so don't take it as gospel, a bunch of defections have already been agreed and all that's left is to time the announcements for best impact. Eg there are no Scottish or Welsh leaders - that might mean someone being announced at the campaign launch.

But the chatter is based on informed guesswork. The defections team is impressively not leaking. That's why Kruger was a surprise to everyone.

The big policy choice will be on pensions. That's important because based on the polling crosstabs, the only demographic keeping the Tories afloat is the over-75s. I'd rather dominate the 75+ bracket as the Tories do than the 18-24 bracket as the Greens do, because pensioners vote, but relying on the pensioner vote is not a long term option.

Morocco?

You mean ending the Triple Lock, or obligating all citizens to take out a private pension? Or both?

I don't know what they'll come up with. It's one of those problems right across the political spectrum, that everyone knows the Triple Lock isn't sustainable long term, but nobody wants to stick their neck out and do anything radical about it.

Older Boomers don't vote Reform anyway, so Farage should be bold on ending the Triple Lock. He needs to make policy to gain younger voters. I say this as someone approaching pension age just after the next GE...