"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 6

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct; AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct; TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)
Thread 5, 31-Oct to 04-Nov; JB (day 8), SW, CG, JR (day 9)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, NHS ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager
AT – Anna Telfer, NHS Deputy Director of Nursing
SW – Sandra Watson, Matron for General and Elective Surgery
JR – Jodie Robinson, manager of Rose

TT

SC: We don't know location of person applying, and the WSs are here; we are not preventing anyone from coming to view them.
J: Yes we are talking about logistics aren't they. If solicitors can't achieve anything in time available, then we can't.

I'm sure if space were available, there is not a woman alive who wouldn't prefer their own personal bathroom for their exclusive use.

The discussion earlier suggested that they anticipated getting Sue Williams done today so it does sound like they thought that both Wednesday and Thursday might have been free days.

TT

J: Will send each of you the press request, and think some more about the request from member of the public. Meanwhile - we will pick up again tomorrow morning.
[END OF SESSION]

I'd say it was unusual. Back in my day, there'd be the odd hole or mark but mostly fine to wear. Scrubs were unisex shapes (not sure if that's changed, but I expect they're all still man shaped). Probably more of the bigger sizes in the male changing rooms so yes, he could have gone in there for more appropriate sizes.

I vividly remember one max fax surgeon (who was tall and obese) standing in the theatre corridor wearing a scrub top several sizes too small. He glared at me then ripped the top in half from the V neck down, threw it on the floor and said "get me a fucking shirt that fits".

Those were the days...

Is the member of the public request from Nick Wallis? Or would he come under the press?

I suspected but still can't believe that not one of the many, many managers had at least one meeting with him to discuss the allegations.

WTF is going on?

Details from RH ws

Trans nurse in changing room row ‘not the individual they have painted me to be’

I believe that if NF intends to accuse RH of lying in his final submissions, he must have put the question to RH in cross examination. A general "are all the allegations against you false?" probably wouldn't be an acceptable way of doing that as too broad.

And I suppose the judge was trying to nail that information down, which means he is holding the bosses very much responsible.

Can somebody explain to me, directing me to performative mime if necessary, why it is so difficult to make witness statements available?

They are surely all in PDFs?

This is worth a look. Very different perspective. https://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/national/25595494.trans-nurse-changing-room-row-not-individual-painted-be/

I’d particularly like to see Rose’s statement.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1985723908172198225.html

that was somewhat disappointing in comparison to DU on the Fife stand. The Darilington nurses really should have made RH a second respondent.
Let women in future tribunal cases remember to do this.

From that linked piece:

Rose said: “I have once asked another colleague, who is a friend of mine, if she was getting changed.
“This was on one particular occasion when we were due to walk out of the changing room together to our cars, and she was taking a long time, and so I wanted her to hurry up, and I sarcastically asked her something like if she was nearly changed yet.
“I recall her answering sarcastically back, as we were joking around.
“I don’t know if Karen Danson or anyone else might have been in the room on that day.”

This fits with the rest of his testimony on other aspects. I didn't do it - oh, I might have done, but...

Thanks @IDareSay for copying the TT tweets over, much appreciated.

If only there had been something the Trust could have done to have made sure that this entire shitshow never had to happen.

But sadly this was impossible. It was all totally and utterly inevitable and unavoidable.

In my head, the emotional support dog got sick of being a prop to narcissists but had developed an interest in the law. So he qualified and, because dogs know that cutting their knackers off doesn't turn a dog into a bitch...well, here we are.

Fetto KC, for the claimants, asked Rose: “By choosing to use it, you were taking a risk that at least some of the users of the changing room might be upset by you using it.”

Rose replied: “It never occurred to me it might be a risk, no.”

I thought he continued to use the changing room, even after he knew there had been complaints?

When I was in hospital about a few years back the female nurses were hoicking up and retying their scrubs trousers, one explained it was because they were unisex, therefore cut for men and didn't fit women properly. It was during covid and the nurse who explained was from the military as a fair few were in helping out, it seemd to drive her more around the bend so maybe she had a better options in her usual job!

Not a nurse but just a comment based on observing RH in court. He has quite sloping shoulders for a man, and seems to fit women's clothing reasonably well. The blouse he was wearing had thick vertical stripes, and the lines mostly fell straight down where you'd expect them to fall, and the blouse shoulders ended at his own shoulder joint, which signals a reasonable fit. I think scrubs tend to be boxy and fairly shapeless anyway but, assuming they keep them stocked in large sizes, I don't think he would be an extreme outlier in terms of finding a decent fit.

I take the point earlier about it still being possible to pick up faulty pairs of scrubs but it seems extremely unlucky that Rose had so many faulty scrub incidents that took place at the same time that he was wearing his (rarely worn) holey boxers, AND when he was in the changing room with people who mostly worked different shift patterns.

I can't figure this out:

Since returning to work, Rose is now using a separate changing room and and the female changing facilities, the statement read.

Both sides come out of any legal battle like this bruised and upset by the process. Justice isn't done to either side by focusing on whose feelings have been hurt the most, but doing so does sell ads on newspaper websites.

Great photo of the nurses marching into court with their lovely bodyguard...