"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 6

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct; AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct; TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)
Thread 5, 31-Oct to 04-Nov; JB (day 8), SW, CG, JR (day 9)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, NHS ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager
AT – Anna Telfer, NHS Deputy Director of Nursing
SW – Sandra Watson, Matron for General and Elective Surgery
JR – Jodie Robinson, manager of Rose

Because you might secretly be enjoying and wanting to elongate the changing room experience, perhaps?

That was the piece of his evidence that I felt stood out most of all as being false. This is just my opinion, but that was said purely to be able to deny the walking about in his boxer shorts allegations.

I don't know why, but that almost deserves a 'and there we have it.

The end'

So this, this is the man that all those people at the Durham and Darlington NHS Trust were going out of their way, and throwing women under the bus, to protect.

This is their 'Rose', their 'she', whom everyone (except for a few women, which is why we are here) apparently accepts and enables.

The men probably don't care. It doesn't affect them - and we have seen the level of their competence. But the handmaidens? I really don't understand, unless they are all cowards.

Oh but he gets changed back again before walking the short distance back to the scrubs.

Like bollocks does he.

He's nowhere near as convincing as he thinks he is.

So much water too...

@Hopalongalong Maybe he identifies as a Camel too and needs to refill his hump?

I don't care if his boxers are holey or pristine, he's wearing bloody boxers, saying he's contemplating starting a family with his wife and also earlier says he is "open" about being trans. He's a bloody bloke and he knows it, and as for outing him, he doesn't seem to be bothered at all, how the holy hell was he ever allowed in the womens changing room?
This is horrible.

Dry mouth cos' starting to feel frightened that he's been found out.

I bet all the scrubs have a pesky ink mark or small tear in them when there's a lone woman in the vicinity.

Yes they fucking do.

Signed,
Ex student

I've seen the argument that if men are to be excluded from women's spaces, so should lesbians, who are by definition sexually attracted to women.

This is true, of course, but lesbians are also women not men, so we haven't acquired the same attitude to women as sex objects that men have.

It amuses me to think that when I'm looking at ads for underwear, I am looking at almost-naked female bodies - but my focus is only on whether or not the bra or knickers are what I want to buy, whereas if a man was looking at them....

It is an entirely different approach to the female body - we already have our own, so are unlikely to be so obsessed by seeing one getting changed into/out of scrubs!

I do wonder if any TIMs are following as closely as we are - for all they have at stake, they don't seem to put in the work to get the information first hand - and whether seeing "Rose" being confronted by statement after statement from women who don't like this and are speaking up has given any of them pause.

I don't think women with their own feelings and opinions that differ from theirs being heard and taken seriously has ever popped up in their view of how the world would unfold for them after they become lay-dees.

TT

The court is taking a short break at present. Cross-examination of Rose Henderson (RH) by the claimant's barrister Niazi Fetto KC (NF) has completed; after the break we will hear any questions from the Judge and panel and any re-examination by Simon Cheetham KC (SC) for the respondents.

And the unsuitable scrubs always seem to be the bottom half. Noone has mentioned him getting his chest out in the CR.

Brainwashing (also known as coercive persuasion or thought reform) is the systematic application of a combination of psychological and social influence techniques to alter an individual's thoughts, beliefs, and behaviors against their will. These techniques are designed to break down a person's sense of self and independence .

All of those 'supportive' staff and all of those supposed allies

Think he spent most of his time looking at other parts of their bodies so could probably deny recognising their faces 😶

He appears to be taking his clothes on and off all the live long day.

My partner has just suggested chip butties for dinner, must be the season!

RH was drinking water like it was going out of fashion. But the crux of that X was everyone is a liar.

If he’s going down the route of they are all liars, why did he feel the need to say he may have some boxers with holes in? They can’t compel him to bring his underwear drawer to the tribunal so why not just deny that as well. I get the feeling he didn’t really think this through. If he really is a woman why isn’t he wearing big seam free pants that don’t leave vpl under his scrubs. I know you can get boxers for women but they tend to be skin tight - holey boxers seem such an expression of maleness for someone who tells us he’s a woman.

'Students don't work night shifts'

[Explaining a discrepancy]
'I said that because I must have just come off a night shift'

Well, which is it, hmm?

I am assuming he is wearing jersey boxers, which look more like trunks. But what the hell is he doing to them to make holes? Mens underwear is so much more robust than womens (and this annoys nme greatly). All the seams will be flatlocked and the waistband is usually smooth 1" elastic. IME they tend to fade and loose their elasticity and generally look sad and old, in contrast to the average women's underwear with thin elastic that can come apart if one thread is pulled.

It makes no sense at all that this giant bloke is so ham-fisted or oblivious, or both, that he goes to work in holey boxers, but once there, he turns into a careful lady, discreetly facing the wall to change, and fastidiously changing as many times as necessary to have pristine scrubs on.

TBF unsuitable often means you find a huge hole after you have put them on or worse there are holes in both pockets or they lack a drawstring at the waist 🤬 rather than a bit of ink. Or on one occasion one of the legs halved in width at mid thigh.

But our scrubs are outside the changing room so i would put clothes back on to go and grab another pair.

The proponents of that argument have never stopped to think for one moment that it's about the safety of the women because they never have to consider it themselves.

I'm quite comfortable in stripping off in a woman-only changing room, including in front of those I know to be lesbians. Because I know that in the - vanishingly unlikely, given that women are rarely sexual predators - event that a woman was to harass or assault me, I've got a good chance of fighting her off. She also can't rape me.

Men, on the other hand...