"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 3

[AuthorisedCat]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Link to Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5432103-darlington-nurses-vs-county-durham-and-darlington-nhs-trust-tribunal-thread-2

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.
The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets
The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.
Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

I just laughed out loud! 😂

AT - yes
NF - before press etc, email from him saying TA and ? don't know that C's are going to press, is going to be tabloid story. Needs resolution
AT yes
NF - you say complex area, lots of case law, what cases?
AT - general observation
NF - you say looking at policy and

NF - creating animosity, sad they are behaving this way, say there is a petition against, you had made up your mind about this
AT - no
NF - a separate TG CR is neither feasible or reasonable, you had decided back in May that wasn't feasible or reasonable for RH.
AT - that is

Case law you say, Andrew.

Tell me more says the lawyer…. Smiling (as I imagine it)

AT - what I said to Noel yes
NF - your oversight and involvement in the correspondence was to try and move 26 nurses in limited facilities yes.
AT - wanted to provide facilities for everyone. Email from Noel caught be by surprise, staff seeing lawyers etc. Then spoke to TA and AM

Yes, this guy is just full of hot air. Is there anything that he actually does know about??

AT - and got back to Noel. Everyone was working for a resolution.
NF - AM had input into this text?
AT - no
NF - you've taken resolutions off the table, no TG CR, and no review of policy you want to remain inclusive. You were working towards the specific resolution, reject the

NF - complaint
AT - disagree.
NF - think that's time.
J - yes
SC - I mentioned to AT earlier being open people travel together but
J - yes, you are driving home with others, but you are part heard and mustn't talk to others, they mustn't ask.

Today has been a nice contrast to the past few days. Those have been about how the Trust ran the process correctly. And criticism of the nurses because they didn't fully engage with it. Today has been about the decision-making during the process and that's not coming out of this at all well.

I want to know what training in EDI this chap has had and from whom

Well he had the kindness training. What else can you need?

NF - a separate TG CR is neither feasible or reasonable...
so let's inconvenience and discriminate against a whole load of women rather than telling one biological male sorry, you'll just have to change in the men's CR.

I wouldn’t want to be in this car share tonight.

I really want to tell the Judge in the chat what Judge Goodman did with the witness statements during that tribunal.

That seems to be the general NHS policy in a nutshell.

Did anyone else see the faces of the nurses at the back of the room when AT sat down in front of them? 🔥

No the camera is trained on the witness

26? I thought it was 7 or 8, which was bad enough!

J - you may go
J - looked at presidential practice on remote hearings and open justice, para 10, where partly remote hearings, where one or more of parties are present, press or public may observe - fine. 10.2 press or public may inspect WS 10.3 hearing in largest room

J - parties can attend remotely from another room. Fit Note 1 to para 9 on remote observation, looking at what it refers to. 9.3 press/public can see WS when given in chief, placing WS on screen not practical, nor is reading aloud. If not practicable, Trib can hear subs on open

J - justice. Some prof reps may be able to set up website with open web page for read only, for press and public but they may not copy. Also can send e-copies to press and public by making avail for download.

SC- it's imp they are available, need to take instructions

It might be a bit tense. 😬

Man, the contrast of how this hearing is being handled compared to anything involving Jane Russell is massive.

Two key points:

• Andrew didn’t review the trans self ID policy or consider its legality
• Rejected any suggestion of a trans changing room per his own email

So there was no chance a single sex compliant space would have been offered at any stage.

The alternative space clause in the "policy" shows how untested these processes truly are. For this to have been signed off without anyone realising that the logical conclusion of their own warped thinking is a responsibility to provide a suitable SS changing facility for anyone not wanting to change in front of a person of the opposite sex, beggars belief.
Thank goodness the Darlington nurses stuck together.

Interesting, the camera in my room panned round to the rest of the courtroom when AT moved to his previous chair.

It’s unbelievable.

The way the whole thing is being run is extraordinary.
EJ Sweeney is a dream to deal with.

Not sure where that came from, a number popped into my head and I typed it🙄
A lorra lorra female employees