"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 3

[AuthorisedCat]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Link to Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5432103-darlington-nurses-vs-county-durham-and-darlington-nhs-trust-tribunal-thread-2

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.
The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets
The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.
Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

This has got me shouting at my phone - and people like him get paid a bloody fortune to then deny all knowledge and responsibility
🤯🤯🤯

God he is so awful. We are currently at the 'face like a slapped arse' stage of testimony.

While I absolutely fell in love with Naomi Cunningham on TT over Peggie, Niazi Fetto is growing on me.

What I love is a smart barrister just walks through the facts. And it makes the bureaucrats squirm. And shows them how idiotic the whole thing is.

Well done to the Darlington Nurses ++ and the legal team behind them. Capable people doing their job exposes the lie.

2+2=4 not 5

NF - under gender specific facility use, take a moment to read
AT - can't see that, but says if others don't wish to share gender specific facilities should use others
NF - doesn't say what others, or how to make arrangements, just if they don't want use alternatives
AT - correct

NF - line above says concerns will be dealt with swiftly and harassment won't be tolerated, clear from policy that concerns about sharing won't result in the TG person changing elsewhere, but rather those people changing elsewhere.
AT - yes, if that's the interpretation yes,

NF - but it's clear, if you don't want to share, go elsewhere
AT - yes
NF - if women object, whatever dealing promptly means, if anyone moves it's the ones who don't want to share
AT - yes
NF - the policy prioritises the right of male employees to access over the use by females

Really missing the clarity of Naomi Cunningham and her refusal to accept TRA BS.

NF may be new to this particular issue following the SC judgement and is doing ok, but he misses the laser sharp hits- from Naomi's 'Pete' to pointing out male entitlement , male sexual fetish etc, and the devastating impact on women as a sex.

Definitely another Andy 'Corporate Bollocks' Letton. He hasn't said a single thing of substance.

Ha ha 🤣 don’t be cheeky to the barristers, the Judge used to be one.

Face is burgundy trending to puce.

NF - when changing
AT - that's your interpretation of a very brief line
J - brief you say
AT - yes one sentence in policy.
J - reading that one sentence, what other interpretation is there? Says use somewhere else, brief of not?
AT - yes

J - anything else in policy that changes the meaning?
AT - not that I'm aware of Judge.
NF - you know from TA that complaints were raised by F employees complaints raised in July 23, is it reasonable for them to expect action by Trust by May 24. AT - I became aware in APril but

I agree - but I think my point is you don’t need to be the world’s leading expert to make a decent argument and win these cases.

You just need to say things out loud. And the NHS office politique start to squirm.

J: What other interpretation is there? Brief or not: is there anything else in the policy that could change the meaning?

HR Guy: Not that I'm aware of.

puce facial colour is deepening

BOOM!

I loved the Judge pulling him up there, "what other interpretation is there"

I may have stuck 2 fingers up at the screen with an expletive!

AT - yes. It wouldn't be my responsibility individually to have done that.
J - whose might it be?
AT - I would expect, we've heard from C that they had complained to AQ and others, I would have expected them to follow through, my teams involvement came with the letter.

NF - what happended to the C's is they were told to use alternative facilities
AT - not sure, alternatives were identified
NF - they were told if you didn't want to share F CR you should use alternative AT - not sure where you read that
NF - page 92

Look on the bright side: none of us have to live with this man when he gets home at night.

NF - and what they were given was a room opening onto a corridor
AT - it was a locker rather than a CR
NF - it was a meeting room with a single cubicle with lockers
AT - yes
NF - they say an infection risk, aware?
AT - no
NF - it was meant to be temporary, yes?
AT - yes

NF - temporary until when
AT - ?
NF - till what changed? You were involved in this
AT - I was involved in finding an alternative space
NF - you say you reads fast email from ms mccree from procurement and you responded, provided her advice to AM,
AT - yes

Surely as he is top of the pile in a ridiculously well paid role, ultimately it is his personal responsibility?

He is missing the point.

He is trying to defend himself… I don’t know, I wasn’t aware, it wasn’t my responsibility…..

He isn’t personally on trial but his utter defensiveness and absolute inability to do his job is writ large.

I haven't followed this case in such detail as SP, but I'm pleased to see the nurses have a competent barrister. As so often, it seems in this case that half the problem is middle management who aren't doing the bloody job they are paid to do. Sitting back with Teflon shoulders, whilst raking in a fat salary.

Well.

BREAK

Thank god, I'm busting

Throwing yet more staff (women) under the bus for not escalating/dealing with the issue properly. He just does not seem to grasp that when you're the boss, everything that goes wrong is ultimately your responsibility - you didn't recruit, train and manage both people and processes to ensure what happens is what is supposed to happen.

(A former CEO of a previous employer of mine ended up in jail because of the actions of some employees. This shit gets real.)

I’m still chuckling at the Judge’s description of giving evidence, as: joining a party when everyone else has already had a couple of drink.

He has changed his water bottle to something more adult. He looked even more ridiculous earlier with a white water bottle. He looked like an overgrown schoolboy drinking from one of those old-school individual milk bottles.

Christ, he is a slippery fuck.

Wouldn't it be nice, just once, for one of these witnesses to say yes I was wrong, it was my responsibility.

He's also adjusted his pocket square. Before lunch it just looked like something shoved in his top pocket. Now it's neatly folded and sticking up more.

Perhaps someone is looking after him.