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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SNP-funded feminist group don't want women to be protected under hate crime law

29 replies

IwantToRetire · 20/10/2025 19:32

Engender believes that trans women are women and has hit out at Scottish Government plans to include sex in its hate crime legislation, as it doesn't include trans women.

Full article at https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-funded-feminist-group-dont-36090087

SNP-funded feminist group don't want women to be protected under hate crime law

Engender believes that trans women are women and has hit out at Scottish Government plans to include sex in its hate crime legislation, as it doesn't include trans women.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-funded-feminist-group-dont-36090087

OP posts:
Raquelos · 20/10/2025 19:34

They ain't no feminists bro

INeedAPensieve · 20/10/2025 20:20

Well they need to fuck off. Feminists aye? Away you go.

KnottyAuty · 20/10/2025 20:23

Well it must be confusing for them - they only historically could get their funding if they were full TWAW. Presumably between grant cycles they’ve failed to notice the policy shift and now their malfunctioning ETA hopefully they fuck off and self destruct

Waitwhat23 · 20/10/2025 20:36

Engender, who wholeheartedly supported the GRR bill?

This Engender? -

https://forwomen.scot/02/03/2019/engender/

Their increasingly out of touch pronouncements can be safely disregarded, I think as their time as the funded pet of the Scottish Government is coming to an end. There's quite a list dodgy, comfortably Governmentally funded organisations who should be starting to get a bit nervous now.

IwantToRetire · 20/10/2025 20:43

I suppose it will come down to what weight politicians give to their view point.

As we know it is the vicious circle of the funding group echo what politicians want to hear, and politicians highlighting the opinion of groups they say represent women.

OP posts:
Justme56 · 20/10/2025 20:48

Are they really concerned about misandry or is it the fact that the TRAs who have abused women with little consequence will now come under hate crime legislation because of their sex?

OhBuggerandArse · 20/10/2025 20:50

Engender have been a lost cause for years now, If they ever had a point it has long gone astray. Speaking of which their Wikipedia seems very out of date. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engender#

Engender - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engender#

Toutafait · 20/10/2025 21:04

IwantToRetire · 20/10/2025 20:43

I suppose it will come down to what weight politicians give to their view point.

As we know it is the vicious circle of the funding group echo what politicians want to hear, and politicians highlighting the opinion of groups they say represent women.

So it may be that the SNP are putting on a show in putting this forward, the plan being that after "extensive consultation" of SNP-funded groups only they will take the consultation on board and decide not to go ahead.
I have mixed feelings, to be honest. I think the Hate Crime Act is a terrible piece of legislation, designed to clamp down on free speech, and I therefore don't like the idea of extending it.

ArabellaSaurus · 20/10/2025 21:09

Waitwhat23 · 20/10/2025 20:36

Engender, who wholeheartedly supported the GRR bill?

This Engender? -

https://forwomen.scot/02/03/2019/engender/

Their increasingly out of touch pronouncements can be safely disregarded, I think as their time as the funded pet of the Scottish Government is coming to an end. There's quite a list dodgy, comfortably Governmentally funded organisations who should be starting to get a bit nervous now.

I dont know. The SNP are still, STILL, on course to win the next election in Scotland. Despite absolutely fucking everything. They're all very happy with their lovely salaries and their cosy quangoland lives. I can't see it all ever ending.

Igmum · 20/10/2025 21:18

Yes of course it is the sworn duty of any advocacy group to refuse decent treatment for the group they are (supposedly) advocating for until all the ills of the world are put to rights 🙄

Toutafait · 20/10/2025 21:59

I remember a distinct lack of enthusiasm about women being included in the Hate Crime Act last time it was discussed - among feminists. The police have already said that they can't be expected to cope with the Hate Crime Bill as is. And I imagine that there's considerably more "hate crime" against women than against all the other groups put together.

IwantToRetire · 20/10/2025 22:13

among feminists.

among some feminists

the arguement being some sort of wishy washy women never get taken seriously so why bother

even if it meant one woman got more justice because an element of an attack was because of a man's hatred of women, that is one good thing, rather than none.

And if it makes men think about their attitudes that is another.

OP posts:
eatfigs · 20/10/2025 22:26

The trans stuff is nonsense but it sounds like they have a point here:

Engender claimed that it risked sending the message that there was a "parallel relationship" between misogyny and misandry, and that men did not deserve equal protection. It said: "The equal protection that men will have from sex-based protections in the Hate Crime Act could also be utilised maliciously by those seeking to undermine the work of women's organisations and to make claims of misandry by individual women. We believe that the current political and cultural climate increases the risk of these occurrences."

I can see how abusive men would try to weaponise this.

Toutafait · 20/10/2025 23:58

The legislation is very wide and it would be very easy for the Scottish government to abuse it. Before JKR called their bluff, with a huge amount of money behind her, it was clearly planning to do so. I imagine that it will do so in the future. If the police suspect you of "stirring up hatred" - which can basically just be saying something insulting about men or trans people etc, or showing a friend a newspaper in which there's an article which is arguably insulting towards those groups of people(encouraging the friend to hate them) - then the police can get a warrant and enter and search your house and take documents, data etc away with them to examine. You can be sent to prison for up to 7 years. I find it very hard to imagine that the government, and abusive individuals and groups, won't use the legislation against women, against their neighbours, etc. I think it will do a great deal of harm to Scotland.

IwantToRetire · 21/10/2025 01:53

eatfigs · 20/10/2025 22:26

The trans stuff is nonsense but it sounds like they have a point here:

Engender claimed that it risked sending the message that there was a "parallel relationship" between misogyny and misandry, and that men did not deserve equal protection. It said: "The equal protection that men will have from sex-based protections in the Hate Crime Act could also be utilised maliciously by those seeking to undermine the work of women's organisations and to make claims of misandry by individual women. We believe that the current political and cultural climate increases the risk of these occurrences."

I can see how abusive men would try to weaponise this.

But that is just twisting the reality. There may well be men who are on the receiving end of a hate crime because of their sex, but real life, and everyone knows it is far more likely that women will experience a hate crime because of their female sex.

The arguement is as dumb as saying we should have race as a hate crime because white people will try and use it to say they are the victims of racial hate. But again in reality we all know that it is for more likely that members of Black and other Minority Ethnic communities are far more likely to be victims of racial hate.

It always amazes me that women aren't thought to have the same right to protection as those who are victims of racism.

The core of the article is that engender like other TRAs hates anything that says women are biological females, and not those who identify as a gender. So they are prioritising trans rights to claim equivilance with actual sex, than prioritising women's right to be protected.

As usual women's rights are dumped on so as to try and advance (despite the Supreme Court ruling) that TWAW.

Isn't there a clause in the Hate Crime legislation that gives trans people the right to claim they are the victim of transphobic hate?

But then of course that would mean accepting they are trans.

OP posts:
Pleasantsort · 21/10/2025 01:55

Engender are aw fur the ladz .

Pleasantsort · 21/10/2025 01:59

ArabellaSaurus · 20/10/2025 21:09

I dont know. The SNP are still, STILL, on course to win the next election in Scotland. Despite absolutely fucking everything. They're all very happy with their lovely salaries and their cosy quangoland lives. I can't see it all ever ending.

Yer joking? No way? I mean I know Labour are shite and the rest are daft but c'mon Scotland !!!

Igneococcus · 21/10/2025 06:05

Pleasantsort · 21/10/2025 01:59

Yer joking? No way? I mean I know Labour are shite and the rest are daft but c'mon Scotland !!!

They are currently polling at just above 30% and the way how the voting system works and the union vote is split and Reform is taking seats from Labour and Con, they will almost certainly remain in government, possibly again with a Green coalition partner. For the first time in ten years I started to consider seriously my company's offer to relocate (with my entire lab) to one of our other sites.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/5d399bd8-ea29-4600-889e-f96932cf4523?shareToken=702e92c961b3d4c3412199fbec251b54

Nightmare on Holyrood: the Greens back in government in 200 days

Even though the SNP and Scottish Greens fell out spectacularly last time they shared power, a repeat scenario could well be on the cards

https://www.thetimes.com/article/5d399bd8-ea29-4600-889e-f96932cf4523?shareToken=702e92c961b3d4c3412199fbec251b54

Toutafait · 21/10/2025 11:05

@IwantToRetire Yes, of course the Hate Crime Act already covers insulting and offending transpeople. I would guess that that was the main reason behind the introduction of the Act. But having someone prosecuted for insulting you on the basis of your womanhood is bound to be a dream for some transwomen.

BetsyM00 · 21/10/2025 12:16

eatfigs · 20/10/2025 22:26

The trans stuff is nonsense but it sounds like they have a point here:

Engender claimed that it risked sending the message that there was a "parallel relationship" between misogyny and misandry, and that men did not deserve equal protection. It said: "The equal protection that men will have from sex-based protections in the Hate Crime Act could also be utilised maliciously by those seeking to undermine the work of women's organisations and to make claims of misandry by individual women. We believe that the current political and cultural climate increases the risk of these occurrences."

I can see how abusive men would try to weaponise this.

I'm not sure how abusive men can weaponise this? The whole point is that there has to be an underlying crime that someone has been convicted of and then an aggravator is applied if a certain characteristic was a motivation for the crime, and sentencing can be increased accordingly. No conviction, no hate crime aggravator.

Of course, abusive men can still accuse their partner of committing crimes, but that's nothing new. And strange how Engender view the Domestic Abuse Act (which also has an aggravator) as the "gold standard" and had no concerns about it could be used by abusive men. It was written using neutral language so both male and female victims can access the law. But not a peep about this either when the Bill was being considered by Parliament.

https://www.engender.org.uk/content/publications/Engender-Submission-of-eveidence-on-the-Domestic-Abuse-Scotland-Bill-to-Scottish-Parliament-Justice-.pdf

ArabellaSaurus · 21/10/2025 12:17

Igneococcus · 21/10/2025 06:05

They are currently polling at just above 30% and the way how the voting system works and the union vote is split and Reform is taking seats from Labour and Con, they will almost certainly remain in government, possibly again with a Green coalition partner. For the first time in ten years I started to consider seriously my company's offer to relocate (with my entire lab) to one of our other sites.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/5d399bd8-ea29-4600-889e-f96932cf4523?shareToken=702e92c961b3d4c3412199fbec251b54

Please don't go, Igneo! 😭

Pleasantsort · 21/10/2025 18:19

Igneococcus · 21/10/2025 06:05

They are currently polling at just above 30% and the way how the voting system works and the union vote is split and Reform is taking seats from Labour and Con, they will almost certainly remain in government, possibly again with a Green coalition partner. For the first time in ten years I started to consider seriously my company's offer to relocate (with my entire lab) to one of our other sites.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/5d399bd8-ea29-4600-889e-f96932cf4523?shareToken=702e92c961b3d4c3412199fbec251b54

Hell mend them . Saying that don't know who I'd vote for if I was up there as aw rubbish ( same as doon here , pretty much !).

Toutafait · 21/10/2025 19:30

BetsyM00 · 21/10/2025 12:16

I'm not sure how abusive men can weaponise this? The whole point is that there has to be an underlying crime that someone has been convicted of and then an aggravator is applied if a certain characteristic was a motivation for the crime, and sentencing can be increased accordingly. No conviction, no hate crime aggravator.

Of course, abusive men can still accuse their partner of committing crimes, but that's nothing new. And strange how Engender view the Domestic Abuse Act (which also has an aggravator) as the "gold standard" and had no concerns about it could be used by abusive men. It was written using neutral language so both male and female victims can access the law. But not a peep about this either when the Bill was being considered by Parliament.

https://www.engender.org.uk/content/publications/Engender-Submission-of-eveidence-on-the-Domestic-Abuse-Scotland-Bill-to-Scottish-Parliament-Justice-.pdf

Edited

No, you've got this wrong. The Act includes an offence of "stirring up hatred". Punishable by up to 7 years in prison. Read Part 3.
Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021

Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/part/3/enacted

Igneococcus · 21/10/2025 21:27

ArabellaSaurus · 21/10/2025 12:17

Please don't go, Igneo! 😭

I won't, I really like my little group of colleagues I have here and not all of them have the option to move as well. The thought of another SNP government with possibly the Greens does make my heart sink though.

Igneococcus · 21/10/2025 21:28

Pleasantsort · 21/10/2025 18:19

Hell mend them . Saying that don't know who I'd vote for if I was up there as aw rubbish ( same as doon here , pretty much !).

I have no idea who to vote for come May but I really really hope I get canvassers, I have things to get off my chest no matter who is coming to my door.

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