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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
BellissimoGecko · 12/10/2025 20:29

Insanity. In the article:

One MP said: “I back Bridget, but if this guidance is published before the vote closes there’s no way I can vote for her. I’ve got a big LGBT community in my constituency and I’d never get their vote again.”

But about women’s vote???! Surely he has a ‘big female community’ in his constituency too?? 🙄🙄🙄

HermioneWeasley · 12/10/2025 20:29

Labour cannot be trusted with women’s rights. They’re still resisting what was settled law in April. Disgraceful misogynists

eatfigs · 12/10/2025 20:32

I guess the subtext is that Bridget Phillipson has every intention of approving the EHRC guidance. So that's good news even if she's delaying it a bit for Labour infighting reasons.

WhyThatsDelightful · 12/10/2025 20:33

Same as Siän Berry, always personal interest first.

Flakey99 · 12/10/2025 20:35

Labour still don’t understand that WOMEN = 50% of the voting public compared to less than 2% of the population who are Trans identifying.

Also that the T does not belong with LGB and many LGB people are trying to distance themselves as fast and far away as possible.

LABOUR - catch UP !!!

Theeyeballsinthesky · 12/10/2025 20:38

I believe Lucy Powell is miles ahead

but for fucks fucking sake

yeah no rush labour, just continue to allow every org/public body/company to fuck about wringing their hands about guidance instead of setting them straight that the law is the law and the guidance won't change that. Only women after all, it's not as if we matter

IwantToRetire · 12/10/2025 21:00

This has been posted on the existing thread about why hasn't the Guidance been ratified by Parliament.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418516-why-has-the-updated-ehrc-guidance-not-been-laid-before-parliament-yet-and-does-anyone-have-insight-on-when-it-will-be?page=5&reply=147783089

SidewaysOtter · 12/10/2025 21:10

HermioneWeasley · 12/10/2025 20:29

Labour cannot be trusted with women’s rights. They’re still resisting what was settled law in April. Disgraceful misogynists

Absolutely. Just proving yet again that the Left has a massive women problem.

BonfireLady · 12/10/2025 22:23

Oh FFS Bridget.

Wake up and lead on this. It's not just women's rights that you need to be brave enough for, it's safeguarding in schools.

Step forward and differentiate yourself. There's a groundswell of public opinion that suggests it's safe enough to do so now. If you're still too scared of your own shadow, you're not the right woman for the job**

** I'm not suggesting Lucy Powell is either.

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 12/10/2025 22:53

I'm a member of the Labour Party and this has been my biggest concern when deciding who to vote for in the deputy leadership contest. I did as much digging as I could and eventually voted for Bridget P. I would have naturally supported Lucy P but she's a full on TWAW wally. I've done my bit

IwantToRetire · 12/10/2025 23:05

IwantToRetire · 12/10/2025 21:00

But always good to have FWR thread title like this for search engines to pick up on. Grin

zanahoria · 13/10/2025 07:23

OK, let compare the two jobs.

The Deputy Leadership of the Labour Party is post not worth having, no Deputy leader ever goes onto become leader. No men are bothering to contest it and women never become leader of the Labour Party. Essentially it is a beauty contest to become Keir's political wife. She will not even be made Deputy PM, that is a bit of a joke position too but David Lammy has it as they wanted to soften the blow of sacking him from Foreign MInister.

In contrast, Equalities Minister is very important job and the task in hand is one of the hottest topics right now.

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

Igmum · 13/10/2025 08:30

It is law already. My understanding is that the EHRC code of practice (interpreting the existing law) doesn’t have to be voted on and will simply pass. If any Labour loons are crazy enough to dig it out and try to change it not only does that not change the law but they’re also doing Nigel Farage’s job for him.

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 13/10/2025 08:33

I dont think they can change the guidance, they would have to change the law.

They'd have to define trans. They cannot define it as changing sex, so maybe would have to rewrite the EqA to include 'and trans' everytime sex is mentioned?

Another2Cats · 13/10/2025 08:35

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

"Isn't it law already?"

No, not yet. How it becomes law is the opposite of how most things work in parliament.

Things like this guidance (and Statutory Instruments ("SIs") etc) normally don't get voted on but are "laid" before Parliament for 40 days.

Once that has been done the only way that it will not become law after the end of the 40 days is if a motion to annul is made by an MP or a member of the House of Lords.

If that happens and quite a number of MPs sign it then it will be debated and voted on. If the vote goes against then the guidance will be annulled.

Although, just for context, the last time that an SI was annulled by the House of Lords was in the year 2000 and by the House of Commons was in 1979.
.

"Are they allowed to change it?"

No, they are not allowed to change it. They can only accept it or reject it.

Imbrocator · 13/10/2025 08:43

I can see why she’s doing it but if it’s something she believes in then surely she’d be better off getting it done and dusted rather than risk the chance that her competitor could put barriers in the way.

Easytoconfuse · 13/10/2025 08:44

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

It means she wants to be deputy leader and isn't too bothered about the truth. I'm not saying anything else!

Another2Cats · 13/10/2025 08:50

Sorry, just to add to the above, even if the Labour government were to reject the guidance it still wouldn't have any effect on the law. At least, according to Ben Cooper KC (he represented Sex Matters at the For Women Scotland case in the Supreme Court).

He said:

It has been drawn to my attention that a number of commentators on social
media (which I avoid) have suggested that the implications of the Supreme Court’s decision in FWS are in some way unclear and/or that they do not take effect until the Equality and Human Rights Commission (‘EHRC’) publishes its final updated guidance taking account of that decision. Consequently, there seems to have been some encouragement to service providers, employers and other duty bearers to do nothing in response to the Supreme Court’s judgment and to await the EHRC’s guidance.

Duty bearers would be ill-advised to follow such encouragement. All duty
bearers should understand the following points (which really ought not to need
stating, and certainly ought to be obvious to any lawyer):

The Supreme Court’s decision in FWS as to the meaning of ‘sex’ in the EA 2010 determines what the law is, and always has been.

It is the Supreme Court, and not the EHRC, that authoritatively determines the law. The EHRC’s role is to provide guidance to assist people to understand and comply with their rights and obligations under the EA 2010; its role is not to determine the law or to interpret the EA 2010 (see Grosset v City of York Council [2018] ICR 1492, CA, §42 per Sales LJ; §68 per Arden LJ).

Therefore, if a service provider, employer or other duty bearer is currently following policies or practices that, in consequence of the Supreme Court’s decision in FWS, are unlawful under the EA 2010, it will be no defence to any claim against them to say that they are awaiting guidance from the EHRC.

So, for example, if a service provider is currently operating a service or facility for women based on a ‘trans inclusive’ definition of ‘woman’, they will be exposing themselves to a serious risk of (i) claims for direct sex discrimination by men who are excluded from that service; and/or (ii) claims for indirect sex discrimination by women who are put at a particular disadvantage by the undermining of their sex-based protections that the admission of men who identify as women into the service is likely to represent.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 13/10/2025 10:28

@Another2Cats got a link for that tweet? I'd like to send him my own thread about girls being made to change with boys because the school is waiting for that guidance...

OP posts:
DworkinWasRight · 13/10/2025 10:42

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

I think it means that Powell is an idiot.

Shortshriftandlethal · 13/10/2025 10:44

zanahoria · 13/10/2025 07:23

OK, let compare the two jobs.

The Deputy Leadership of the Labour Party is post not worth having, no Deputy leader ever goes onto become leader. No men are bothering to contest it and women never become leader of the Labour Party. Essentially it is a beauty contest to become Keir's political wife. She will not even be made Deputy PM, that is a bit of a joke position too but David Lammy has it as they wanted to soften the blow of sacking him from Foreign MInister.

In contrast, Equalities Minister is very important job and the task in hand is one of the hottest topics right now.

Edited

Yes, but the symbolism of persisting with the TWAW line is not a progressive one. Electing Powell would give succour to those who can't and won't accept the supreme court ruling and all it implies.

Floisme · 13/10/2025 10:55

I feel lukewarm, at best, towards Bridget Phillipson. But if that article is correct when it states that several Labour MPs are afraid to vote for her, then I think it says more about the state of the party then it does about her.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 13/10/2025 11:00

Datun · 13/10/2025 07:57

Powell is understood to think now that MPs should be able to vote on the guidance because it will become law.

What does this mean? Isn't it law already?

Are they allowed to change it?

It means Powell is a numpty who doesn't understand how the legal system works.

Grammarnut · 13/10/2025 11:34

zanahoria · 13/10/2025 07:23

OK, let compare the two jobs.

The Deputy Leadership of the Labour Party is post not worth having, no Deputy leader ever goes onto become leader. No men are bothering to contest it and women never become leader of the Labour Party. Essentially it is a beauty contest to become Keir's political wife. She will not even be made Deputy PM, that is a bit of a joke position too but David Lammy has it as they wanted to soften the blow of sacking him from Foreign MInister.

In contrast, Equalities Minister is very important job and the task in hand is one of the hottest topics right now.

Edited

No. Equalities Minister is a non-job because it's mostly about women. Being Deputy Leader is a proper job because it is usually held by a man and though it is not a stepping stone to leadership it is better than any job that has women as its focus. The same goes for Education, btw, except that Gove and Gibbs used it as a fightback against woolly thinking in our schools and succeeded, introducing proper teaching. But a Labour politician can't do that because 'progressive' so teaching children to actually read is less important than teaching them about DIE.

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