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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Prime Minister refused to ban 1st cousin marriage

600 replies

happydappy2 · 04/10/2025 10:10

Even though there is clear evidence of serious birth defects to babies born from 1st cousin marriages. It is deeply worrying that the bride and groom will have the same Grand Parents.....this is unsafe for women in a patriarchal family system.

Who takes on the bulk of the work caring for the disabled child-the woman...

Why is the British gov't promoting incest?

https://x.com/Basil_TGMD/status/1974371215629578344

I hope this is not true...but does anyone know any more about it?

Basil the Great (@Basil_TGMD) on X

Keir Starmer blocked a ban on 'cousin marriage' That's right, the UK Government is actively promoting incest

https://x.com/Basil_TGMD/status/1974371215629578344

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
PandoraSocks · 04/10/2025 16:15

ladybirdsanchez · 04/10/2025 16:02

Wow - the intro sequence of that documentary states that MORE THAN HALF OF BRITISH PAKISTANIS MARRY THEIR FIRST COUSINS 😱

I had no idea the practice was so widespread. I knew it wasn't unusual, but more than half???? Bloody hell!!

Edited to say that it's clear why wet lettuce Starmer won't ban this. There are apparently 1.6 million British Pakistanis, which equates to 2.5% of the population. That's a lot of voters to potentially alienate ... not that I'm cynical. Oh no!

Edited

If you think the only reason wet lettuce Starmer won't ban it is because he thinks it would adversely affect his voter base, why the hell didn't the Tories do it? What was their reason?

RoyalCorgi · 04/10/2025 16:16

WeAreNumpties · 04/10/2025 14:46

For hundreds of years it was very, very common for British people to marry cousins, often first cousins, particularly in rural areas, so let's stop with all the superiority and pearl clutching. It only becomes a problem when there is repeated intermarrying of cousins.

They did all sorts of things in the past: hang witches, throw the contents of chamber pots out into the street, hang pickpockets. Are we not allowed to express dislike of these practices now because they were once commonplace?

Anyway, the point, as several PPs have said, is that repeated cousin marriage down the generations is problematic, significantly raising the risk of genetic disorders, and it is common in certain sections of the Pakistani Muslim community in the UK.

There are other reasons why it's a bad idea: notably that young women are coerced or pressurised into marrying their cousins, and that it reinforces the clan system, which means people prioritise kinship over a sense of responsibility to the wider community.

Matthew Syed has written about it a few times, eg

archive.is/BClqt

MaturingCheeseball · 04/10/2025 16:22

Those on here in opposition, do you actually approve of cousin marriage? Do you genuinely think it’s absolutely not problematic?

I agree with pp that offering genetic testing is pointless. I read an article interviewing those who were in cousin marriages, and they just said it was “God’s will” if the baby was disabled. It has to be said, I don’t think most taxpayers would be quite so ambivalent about this view.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 04/10/2025 16:26

We need repeated cousin marriage to stop. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that. Occasional incidences such as where an older couple won’t be having children aren’t a big deal. Routine cousin marriages are.

I believe those involved in the research found that when women were educated about the implications of, cousin marriage reduces. That cousin marriage is already reducing as a result of education work being done. Women in these communities weren’t aware of the problem until recently. So the change is already happening.

If you pass a law, some women will still end up having children with the wrong men- but with no legal protection. The community will feel targeted and interfered with. The older men will double down.

I trust the researchers involved, who were not advocating a ban.

8TinyToeBeans · 04/10/2025 16:28

I think education is probably far more valuable than banning. If you ban something, it just carries on under the radar. If you educate, then changes may develop in the way people think.

Its also a slippy slope to ban based on genetics. Humans reproduce based on a far more complex system than most of the animal world. We don’t manage ourselves like picking the optimal stallion to breed your mare. The strongest don’t compete for breeding right. We reproduce selfishly, passing on our genetic quirks as we go. But to act otherwise is eugenics. Education and moral decisions are critical.

MaturingCheeseball · 04/10/2025 16:36

But if the country is picking up the tab for knowingly having children with a cousin? The cost is phenomenal. Obviously anyone can have a disabled child - there but for the grace of (your choice of) god go I. But when it can be avoided, or you already have disabled children… well, it’s difficult but the practice certainly needs addressing.

Many women don’t have the chance to be “educated”. They are married very young and if from Pakistan certainly have had no access to information there.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 04/10/2025 16:39

Girls aren’t the ones making the choice. It’s the older women in these communities family, and the men. That’s where the information needs to be accepted- and the Born in Bradford team say that it is happening. They think a ban would be counterproductive.

That’s basically all that’s influencing my view. That those who know best, and most closely involved, think there are better solutions.

SerendipityJane · 04/10/2025 16:41

What happens to existing marriages ?

Imnobody4 · 04/10/2025 16:42

I have to say I used to put all my faith in education 40years ago. Yes it's had an effect but not as great as I'd hoped. New waves of immigrants bring the old ideas. I'm seeing 2nd and 3rd generations, especially men becoming more fixed.
Why are they educating the women and not the men?

ladybirdsanchez · 04/10/2025 16:53

PandoraSocks · 04/10/2025 16:15

If you think the only reason wet lettuce Starmer won't ban it is because he thinks it would adversely affect his voter base, why the hell didn't the Tories do it? What was their reason?

Edited

Well, they should've done. All this tiptoe-ing around is for political reasons. I'm not defending the Tories on not acting either.

Imnobody4 · 04/10/2025 17:00

This is all so sad and avoidable.
Did my children die because I married my cousin? - BBC News https://share.google/vDbF8S9VJ9ZCYHgnq

Ruba Bibi had not wanted to marry so young. She had planned to do A-levels and go to university, but before she had finished her GCSEs her parents arranged for her to marry Saqib Mehmood, her cousin, in Pakistan.
Born and brought up in Bradford, Ruba had visited Pakistan twice before the wedding - once when she was four and once when she was 12. She couldn't really remember the man she was now engaged to and had never spent time alone with him. He was 27 and worked as a driver. She was 17.

Ruba and Inara

Did my children die because I married my cousin?

Ruba and Saqib both carry a gene for I-cell disorder, which means their children have a one-in-four chance of dying in early childhood.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-46558932

AndThenIsawhisface · 04/10/2025 17:08

Practically speaking though, how would a ban be enforced? Would every single person living into being UK getting married need to have a test to confirm they're not related to their partners? What about people living together without marriage? I don't see how it could ever be enforced though I admit I haven't thought about it extensively

LittleBearPad · 04/10/2025 17:11

wisbech · 04/10/2025 12:26

Queen Victoria married her first cousin, Albert. It's a long standing British value - in the 19th century about 1 in 30 marriages were of first cousins. Henry VIII changed the law away from Catholicism.

Queen Victoria and her offspring’s intermarrying spread haemophilia throughout the royal houses of Europe. I’m not sure it’s an example to follow

LittleBearPad · 04/10/2025 17:12

SerendipityJane · 04/10/2025 16:41

What happens to existing marriages ?

You make it effective going forward. It’s not difficult

BundleBoogie · 04/10/2025 17:25

HPFA · 04/10/2025 15:22

You see on this thread how any attempt to discuss this issue seriously descends into crude Muslim bashing from some posters.

Don’t be ridiculous - no one is ‘bashing Muslims’. This attitude is part of the wider problem with some elements wanting to shut down all inconvenient conversation. It is divisive and negative.

Even Muslim groups now recognise the issues and the need for discussion. I have no idea why you are riding in to the rescue to shut down this conversation with your hyperbolic accusations.

BundleBoogie · 04/10/2025 17:30

Dooaleapa · 04/10/2025 15:38

Also worth noting that this is also fairly common in the British aristocracy

Edited

Oh I hadn’t realised that we were living in the 1840s 🤷‍♀️

Social opinion and medical knowledge has moved on rather significantly since then though.

Dooaleapa · 04/10/2025 17:35

BundleBoogie · 04/10/2025 17:30

Oh I hadn’t realised that we were living in the 1840s 🤷‍♀️

Social opinion and medical knowledge has moved on rather significantly since then though.

Well FYI it is 2025 and I happen to personally know 2 people from those circles who share the same grandparent so…

TheCountessofLocksley · 04/10/2025 17:36

Dancingdance · 04/10/2025 15:57

It’s legal at the moment, but it is incest. I think it’s disgusting that it’s still legal.

It’s not incest - the law allows for this relationship. It is a familial sexual relationship that is legal
in the UK. That doesn’t mean it has to be socially acceptable but it is not against any current law.

This article from the British sociological society discusses this subject - it’s an interesting read.

https://es.britsoc.co.uk/should-cousin-marriage-be-banned/

its an emotive topic and difficult to remain objective as its more than a medical issue, its cultural too.

personally I think prohibiting this relationship will result in greater number of maternal and infant deaths as women become afraid to seek medical help.

BundleBoogie · 04/10/2025 17:40

PandoraSocks · 04/10/2025 16:15

If you think the only reason wet lettuce Starmer won't ban it is because he thinks it would adversely affect his voter base, why the hell didn't the Tories do it? What was their reason?

Edited

I don’t think anyone disagrees that the Conservatives should have done it while they had the chance.

They did have a number of senior politicians who were Muslim though - this may have been a conflict of interest.

Buffypaws · 04/10/2025 17:41

The idea of boinking one of my man cousins is 🤮🤮🤮🤮

BundleBoogie · 04/10/2025 17:52

RoyalCorgi · 04/10/2025 16:16

They did all sorts of things in the past: hang witches, throw the contents of chamber pots out into the street, hang pickpockets. Are we not allowed to express dislike of these practices now because they were once commonplace?

Anyway, the point, as several PPs have said, is that repeated cousin marriage down the generations is problematic, significantly raising the risk of genetic disorders, and it is common in certain sections of the Pakistani Muslim community in the UK.

There are other reasons why it's a bad idea: notably that young women are coerced or pressurised into marrying their cousins, and that it reinforces the clan system, which means people prioritise kinship over a sense of responsibility to the wider community.

Matthew Syed has written about it a few times, eg

archive.is/BClqt

Wow! That is an eye opening article. These two sections caught my eye.

The people arguing against a ban for this may think they are being ‘kind’ and supportive to Muslims. In reality, they are just helping to perpetuate a practice that causes serious harm to children and silence the Muslims who do object but are silenced by powerful leaders/family pressure. Islam is not a democracy.

Not surprising that there is a crossover here between people arguing against banning cousin marriage and those keen to erase women’s rights. #bekind

From the article:
Let me start by telling you about Dr Patrick Nash, a somewhat shy legal academic who in 2017 came across an intriguing finding. He noticed that much of the “extremism” emanating from Pakistani communities seemed to have a “clan” component. The perpetrators were linked not just through ideology or religion but by family ties stretching through generations. He noticed something else too: these communities were cemented together by cousin marriage, a common practice in Pakistani culture. By marrying within small, tightknit groups, they ensure everything is kept within the baradari, or brotherhood — property, secrets, loyalty — binding them closer together while sequestering them from wider society.
At this point Dr Nash hadn’t come to understand the genetic risks, the patriarchal oppression and the bloc voting, nor the growing evidence that rates of cousin marriage strongly correlate with corruption and poverty, but — like any good scholar — he thought he’d do a bit more digging.
But then something odd happened: several academics invited him to the pub for a “drink and chat”. He thought nothing of it, but it turned out to be an informal tribunal. “It was put to me that I might consider another line of inquiry that would be more ‘culturally sensitive’, less likely to provide ‘ammo for the right’ and less likely to ‘make life more difficult for myself’ as a junior, untenured academic,” he told me. “It was sinister.”

But the other striking aspect of the debate was the sinister influence of scientific malpractice. MPs on all sides kept referring to the genetic risks of cousin marriage as “double” those of relationships between unrelated couples. This “fact” is endemic throughout the media, from the BBC to The Telegraph, and for good reason: journalists trust what scientists tell them. But the stat isn’t true — indeed, it’s absurd. When inbreeding persists through generations (when cousins get married who are themselves the children of cousins), the risks are far higher, which is why British Pakistanis account for 3.4 per cent of births nationwide but 30 per cent of recessive gene disorders, consanguineous relationships are the cause of one in five child deaths in Redbridge and the NHS hires staff specifically to deal with these afflictions.

BundleBoogie · 04/10/2025 18:03

From the figures above, based on UK births last year of 662,000, 3.4% of that is 22,508 of which reported 30% have serious issues.

By my reckoning that is 7500 children per year with serious disabilities being born because of a practice known to cause them.

For scale, Thalidomide is estimated to have affected 10,000 babies in total worldwide.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 04/10/2025 18:06

ladybirdsanchez · 04/10/2025 16:02

Wow - the intro sequence of that documentary states that MORE THAN HALF OF BRITISH PAKISTANIS MARRY THEIR FIRST COUSINS 😱

I had no idea the practice was so widespread. I knew it wasn't unusual, but more than half???? Bloody hell!!

Edited to say that it's clear why wet lettuce Starmer won't ban this. There are apparently 1.6 million British Pakistanis, which equates to 2.5% of the population. That's a lot of voters to potentially alienate ... not that I'm cynical. Oh no!

Edited

Why didn't Rishi Sunak ban it? Or Liz Truss? Or Boris Johnson? Or Teresa May? Or David Cameron?

SerendipityJane · 04/10/2025 18:06

LittleBearPad · 04/10/2025 17:12

You make it effective going forward. It’s not difficult

Not sure that is equitable.

Also what about marriages abroad ?

And also what if people have sex without getting married ?

Or is the plan to make 1st cousin sex illegal as incest ?

MO0N · 04/10/2025 18:06

Inbreeding means that members of a community are too physically and/or intellectually impaired to pose much of a threat to those who hold power. Those impairments also lead to stunted lives, lack of innovation, lack of progress. The ordinary people are kept in the dark & in the dirt, but those who hold power get to stay at the top of the hierarchy.

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