Prime Minister refused to ban 1st cousin marriage

[happydappy2]

Even though there is clear evidence of serious birth defects to babies born from 1st cousin marriages. It is deeply worrying that the bride and groom will have the same Grand Parents.....this is unsafe for women in a patriarchal family system.

Who takes on the bulk of the work caring for the disabled child-the woman...

Why is the British gov't promoting incest?

https://x.com/Basil_TGMD/status/1974371215629578344

I hope this is not true...but does anyone know any more about it?

Ever heard the so-called joke 'normal for Norfolk'? Applies to multiple communities across the UK particularly where the dating pool was smaller and DNA testing wasn't a thing; you just need a few large families in the 1930s and 40s and there's a good chance that there is a genetic connection or three between those of a similar age a couple of generations down. All ethnicities, all faiths, many towns, areas of cities and counties.

No it wouldn’t because banning the legal recognition of a relationship does not ban the relationship itself. For example homosexuality was decriminalised decades before gay marriage was recognised.

It would not be enough to ban cousin marriage you would have to redefine the laws surrounding incest.

Sharia law doesn’t trump civil law but equally civil law does not trump people from having agreements between themselves. I can “marry” 3 men in a pagan ceremony if I want to.

If you ban cousin marriages then that doesn't stop Sharia non legal marriages and babies being conceived into them with birth defects. It just means that as well as women having to see their children die over and over again from congenital abnormalities and having to care for disabled children they can be Sharia divorced at the drop of a hat with no legal redress. I think cousin marriages should be banned, for societal reasons as well as to stop girls being sent to Pakistan to be married to their cousins ( no marriage, no visa) and to state that the practice is illegal and detrimental but there are problems caused by it.

There used to be a term “village idiot” - because every village had them. When you only married within a very small geographical area (you never met anyone else!) inbreeding was inevitable.

As posters have repeatedly said, one off cousin marriage is unlikely to be problematic. Repeated cousin marriage increases the likelihood of birth defects.

I don’t understand why some posters are in denial; my dog’s line is carefully managed to avoid in-breeding. Humans are just the same. They’re not magically exempt.

Is there a news article please op?

Definitely should be banned, its a ridiculous practice that needs to go to protect women and children.

Basically Labour are afraid of losing a good whack of voters if this policy were to be enacted. They will be bending over backwards, forwards and inside out to keep a good many constituencies come the next election.

Yes I’m not sure why people are looking to history for this. Society changes and the laws should reflect that.

I don’t understand why some posters are in denial; my dog’s line is carefully managed to avoid in-breeding. Humans are just the same.

Well, yes. Trouble is that when applied to humans, it becomes Eugenics.

Marriage was never governed by common law, but by ecclesiastic (church) law and by acts of Parliament (statute law) So it was illegal while England was part of Catholicism, then, as part of the reforms that broke us from the Catholic Church, was made legal. Technically the Catholic Church didn't have a hard ban though, but you needed dispensation (permission) from them to marry a cousin.

Let's not pretend this is something the British didn't do. The upper classes married cousins for centuries.

Just think of Pride and Prejudice - Lady Catherine was determined Darcy marry her daughter, his cousin, as had been planned by their mother's in infancy. Or Fanny and Edward in Mansfield Park.

It's definitely a problem when repeated through generations, as the NHS Trusts in Bradford and Leicester are aware. However, making it illegal isn't necessarily the most helpful way to end it and can have harmful consequences for the women concerned.

Blame Henry VIII - before 1540 it was illegal, he changed the law to marry Kat Howard. So it’s been been happening for centuries now, mostly upper class marriages, that’s how they kept their wealth! Victoria and Albert were cousins and Darwin also married his cousin (you’d have thought he might have thought that through before having 10 children).

Things may change as we find out more about the health implications for children of these marriages or the impact in their children’s health. At present, I’m sure the Bill will fail as first cousin marriages are a relatively small % of all UK marriages though I appreciate if you break it down by race/religion the proportion of first cousin marriages can be much higher (Born in Bradford study)

Any changes would likely fail an equality pact assessment (or at least raise some interesting challenges for the Gov lawyers) it could be argued that prohibiting first cousin marriage has a disproportionately negative impact on certain protected groups, eg Irish travellers, people with African or Asian heritage. Prohibiting it in the UK wouldn’t stop it happening in other parts of the world, where it is legal and women, there would need to be safeguards like there are for girls sent abroad for FGM. Also there could be a knock on effect on maternal deaths if women who have married a first cousin abroad ate then reluctant to seek ante-natal care for fear of stigmatisation.

it could be a case of doing less harm by leaving it as it is. not an easy decision for anyone to make. If you’re interested, follow the Bills progress on the Parliament website and in Hansard so you can see what is being asked/discussed.

afraid I don't have a news article yet. To the above poster who implied it would be eugenics-I really don't think it's comparable! Drs advise against alcohol and smoking whilst pregnant-they should also advocate against 1st cousin marriage-especially when it is repeated generation after generation.

You can marry your cousin over there? I didn't know that it's always been illegal in Australia you have to get a blood test before you get married

Why didn't the Tories address it during their 14 year reign?

It should be illegal.
There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t change the law to be to date with modern scientific knowledge.
Not to mention the coercion of very young women often involved.

Shush . Remember that all England's woes and discontents date from July 4th 2024.

Really? About the blood test, how long has that been in place

Oh no it’s all great now as people said it would be.

For hundreds of years it was very, very common for British people to marry cousins, often first cousins, particularly in rural areas, so let's stop with all the superiority and pearl clutching. It only becomes a problem when there is repeated intermarrying of cousins.

That was auto correct - it was meant to be ‘serious’.

I read the study and it came across as being very defensive. Almost as if it had some preconceived agenda…

I presume this is the section you are referring to. I couldn’t see any citations for the comparison in turn but the thing that jumped out at me was that while they admitted that risk doubled after cousin marriage, they then didn’t give a baseline or any contextual info about the claim that the risks for white British women were also ‘double’. Double what? They are talking about 2 entirely different cohorts. Their figures also contradict other studies that found 12% infant mortality in repeated cousin marriages through the generations.

The figure that I found was that the additional risk to white women over 35 was 0.89 so it appears that the baseline risk factor is 0.445. It’s comparing completely different things and utterly dishonest.

They also claim that white women having babies over 35 is a ‘cultural practice’. No it isn’t. The demands of careers and government may be pushing women to have children later but it is not a ‘cultural practice’. In any case, if it had an equal risk to cousin marriage I’m sure words would be had and older mothers would be shamed for putting their kids health at risk.

You point out that cousin marriage in Bradford is declining - why? If it’s so risk free and desirable, why is it happening less? It would be even lower if we made it illegal. Then it would be classed as incest.

I am very worried that medical care and society are moving backwards. We seem to be encouraging people to continue with a practice that we KNOW creates health issues. These people might get screening but that doesn’t necessarily pick up all possibilities so then what? Are we deliberately creating a situation where there will be more abortion required ?

In each pregnancy there will be a 25% chance that this mutation is co-inherited by their offspring, resulting in the expression of the disorder. There also is a wider risk of an adverse impact on biological fitness through generational effects (so-called inbreeding depression).
Born in Bradford provides the most definitive UK evidence of risk of congenital anomalies.
After allowing for risk factors such as age, obesity and smoking, the risk of congenital anomalies was doubled (3% to 6%) in first cousin marriages and explained 30% of genetic disorders.
However the risk to the child they give birth to also doubled in White British women over the age of 34 years.
At this point, it is important to mention that just like a cousin marriage is a cultural practice in Asian/British Pakistanis heritage, resulting in increasing risk factors for congenital anomalies, so too is choosing to give birth at or after the age 34 in White British women/couples.

Times change, laws reflect that. Or should.

Pseudo legal systems or courts should also be banned.

But it is not common any more in virtually all communities in the UK, for very good reasons!

And the only effective way of addressing it is to ban it in all circumstances. And requiring all religious marriages within mainstream religions, including Islam and Orthodox Judaism, must be accompanied with a civil service shortly after.

One of the most upsetting programmes I have ever watched was 'When Cousins Marry' from Channel 4 Dispatches (2010).

It has been removed from the Channel 4 app, but is still on YouTube. It is truly heartbreaking.

You're misunderstanding Sharia. It requires proper ceremonies etc and as such is limited by the law of the land. ie it's not just a bit of cos play.

Imam appears in court charged with allowing illegal marriage of 16-year-olds at Northampton mosque | ITV News Anglia https://share.google/2mNvvvGccUBeVXyGX
Ashraf Osmani, 52, of Abington Avenue, Northampton, spoke only to confirm his name, address and date of birth when he appeared at Northampton Magistrates' Court on Thursday.He was charged under forced marriage legislation, according to Northamptonshire Police.It is alleged that Osmani conducted a Nikah marriage ceremony in November 2023, involving two 16-year-old children at the Northampton Central Mosque, where he is the serving imam, the mosque’s most senior Muslim cleric.

This