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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Consultation on future access to the Hampstead Heath Bathing Ponds - Closes 25 November 2025

139 replies

IwantToRetire · 30/09/2025 18:57

The City of London Corporation has launched a public consultation to help inform future access arrangements at Hampstead Heath’s Bathing Ponds.

The consultation invites feedback from pond users, the local community, and stakeholders on how the Kenwood Ladies’, and Highgate Men’s ponds should operate in the future.

The consultation is open until 12:00 on Tuesday 25 November 2025.

https://hampstead-heath-bathing-ponds.commonplace.is/

Opened today and I found out via an Irish newspaper!

I know there is an existing thread about legal challenge but thought it good to have the news of the consultation being open as a thread title.

Future access to the Hampstead Heath Bathing Ponds

Inviting feedback from pond users, the local community, and stakeholders on how the Kenwood Ladies’, and Highgate Men’s ponds should operate in the future.

https://hampstead-heath-bathing-ponds.commonplace.is

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
IwantToRetire · 01/10/2025 01:17

LastTrainsEast · 30/09/2025 21:04

"Because whether you like it or not, in the UK many laws are not upheld"

I'm a man and not trans so not allowed in the ladies pool.

Since some men are that is discrimination against me and I could sue.

Then my neighbour could and his neighbour and so on.

Meanwhile every woman in the country could sue because not allowed in the men's pool

Their only escape would probably be to make them all open to all, but the men using the men's pool might have something to say about that. I'm amazed they have allowed transmen in.

No simple amendment will fix it because allowing members to choose would wreck the equality act and we'd be back to "but our members are fine with white men, white women, but not black people"

I think many are missing the point.

I am saying that social braining washing and lack of interest by companies unless pushed will mean there will continue to be events, services, toilets that will say women and trans women.

No one will say any thing. No one will do anything.

Because thanks to both social and main stream media the "be kind" mantra still holds sway.

And the women who dont like it, or are actually violated because of it, will probably stay silent.

Even if, for instance, Sex Matters enrolled thousands of volunteer to monitor their local area, and complaints were made, they will somehow not promote any sort of action.

Or, as I said, in the same way as Labour (the then Government) wrote into the EA that where "proportionate" TW could be excluded from women only services, they could well dream up a clause that said where "proportionate" TW could be admitted to Women only (ie biological sex) services.

The WEC is probably drafting something like this already as they think the Supreme Court has been so unkind to TW and the EHRC guidelines are too harsh.

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 01/10/2025 01:19

Davros · 30/09/2025 20:30

I live very locally and I haven’t seen anything about this. I will be responding of course. How they can say that trans men can go in the men’s pond I do not know. It’s just lies

The survey only went online today.

It will be interesting to see how the local papers report it.

As I am sure they will as it has been in the news off and on for years.

Not forgetting Man Friday. Grin

OP posts:
Mollyollydolly · 01/10/2025 02:17

I've filled it in. I thought the questions were incredibly loaded, they didn't make it clear there was a mixed sex pond until the final question. Please take five minutes to fill it in and add your comments.

hholiday · 01/10/2025 06:59

IwantToRetire · 30/09/2025 19:32

I suspect, given what has happened in the past, that they will get (or manage to discredet enough responses that dont fit) an overwhelming support for trans inclusion.

And then somehow argue that they are providing a service that the public wants.

To then set a precedent that when a popular vote demands it, organisation can be exempt from the Supreme Court ruling.

You may think I am joking.

But I am not. There has been so much resistance and the activists who are embedded in places like this Corporation, will use this position to continue to undermine women's rights.

No - I agree. That is exactly what they are doing.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 01/10/2025 07:25

I see Edward lord is still there they/theming away
democracy.cityoflondon.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=1390

Conxis · 01/10/2025 07:31

Mollyollydolly · 01/10/2025 02:17

I've filled it in. I thought the questions were incredibly loaded, they didn't make it clear there was a mixed sex pond until the final question. Please take five minutes to fill it in and add your comments.

Yes. The response needed to each one is “that will create 3 mixed sex ponds”!

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/10/2025 07:38

I assume they are avoiding referring to the mixed sex pond until the very end so that people will fill in the consultation from the point of view of "oh no but then the poor trans people will have nowhere to swim!" rather than "OK but trans people can still use the mixed sex pond".

Either way, it shouldn't fucking matter what the consultation says because they still have to obey the law regardless of what any members of the public think about it.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/10/2025 07:39

Theeyeballsinthesky · 01/10/2025 07:25

I see Edward lord is still there they/theming away
democracy.cityoflondon.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=1390

Odious man.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/10/2025 08:01

1. Please state whether you agree or disagree with the following options for the future operation of the Highgate Men’s Pond and the Kenwood Ladies’ Pond?

1(a) They should be strictly single-sex facilities - Under this option the Highgate Men’s Pond would only be accessible to biological men and the Kenwood Ladies’ Pond would only be accessible to biological women.

Answer: Strongly agree.

Comments: There are three ponds, one of which is mixed sex. Anybody who does not feel comfortable using the pond which corresponds to their own sex, or who wishes to swim with someone of the opposite sex, is free to use the mixed sex pond. The single sex ponds are the only options which exist for people who, for very good reasons, are unable to swim with members of the opposite sex. This includes women from religious minorities and survivors of sex based violence.

1(b) They should continue to be trans-inclusive spaces as currently operated - Under this option the Highgate Men’s Pond would be accessible to all biological men and trans men and the Kenwood Ladies’ Pond would be accessible to all biological women and trans women as at present.

Answer: Strongly disagree.

Comments: I disagree for two reasons. Firstly, as previously stated, there is also a mixed sex pond which is completely trans inclusive. There is already a perfectly acceptable alternative for trans people. Secondly, the law requires that women-only and men-only spaces are actually single sex. This was confirmed by the Supreme Court judgment in April. I do not understand why you think the law does not apply to you.

1(c) They should be trans-inclusive spaces based on how people have decided to live their lives Under this option the Highgate Men’s Pond would only be accessible to people who have decided to live their lives as men (including trans men but excluding trans women) and the Kenwood Ladies’ Pond would only be accessible to people who have decided to live their lives as women (including trans women but excluding trans men).

Answer: Strongly disagree.

Comments: Please see answers for 1(b).

1(d) They should be trans-inclusive spaces, but the communal changing rooms and toilets should not - Under this option trans men would have access to the Highgate Men’s Pond and trans women would have access to the Kenwood Ladies’ Pond and Meadow, but would be required to use the separate accessible toilet, shower and changing room at each facility.

Answer: Strongly disagree.

Comments: Please see answer to 1(b).

If you are genuinely committed to trans inclusion you should install some unisex, fully enclosed changing and showering facilities at the mixed sex pond, rather than breaking the law by allowing people to use facilities for members of the opposite sex or reducing the number of facilities available for disabled people by allowing able bodied people to use them.

In short, if you actually care about trans people, put your money where your mouth is and actually spend some on individual-user showers and changing facilities for them.

1(e) A hybrid approach where they are trans-inclusive spaces at stated times but are operated as strictly single-sex facilities at other times - Under this option, the Highgate Men’s Pond and the Kenwood Ladies’ Pond would continue to be trans-inclusive spaces at certain specified times, but there would be other advertised sessions/times when these facilities would be operated as strictly single-sex spaces.

Answer: Strongly disagree.

Comments: Please see answer to 1(b). You are not above the law. You need to comply with the Equality Act, which requires women-only and men-only spaces to be single sex. This is not optional and you can no longer plead ignorance.

1(f) They should be mixed-sex spaces - Under this option both the Highgate Men’s Pond and the Kenwood Ladies’ Pond would be accessible to everyone regardless of sex or gender. The City of London Corporation does not currently favour this option, as it is believed that it would be unpopular with most users, due to the unique nature and historic significance of these Bathing Ponds. However, it has been included as an option for completeness and to evaluate support for it. This will be considered alongside other options.

Answer: Strongly disagree.

Comments: What would be the point of this option? Then you would have three mixed sex ponds and people who require a single sex option would have nowhere to go.

1(g) Are there any other options that you think we should be considering? If so, please tell us about them below.

The only option you should be considering is complying with the law. I am not sure what the point of this consultation is. You should be complying with the law even if most respondents to the consultation are advising you to break it.

2. If you have any other comments relating to this consultation, or access to the Hampstead Heath Bathing Ponds, or about how these proposals for the Highgate Men’s Pond and the Kenwood Ladies’ Pond might affect you, please provide them below.

The City of London Corporation is funded by taxpayers. It is there to serve the public, not advance the political agendas of people like Edward Lord (they/them), who will not be the one paying the legal costs when you inevitably lose in court.

Then on the final pages I answered "gender is sexist, imaginary nonsense" to the gender identity question, and "none of your business" to the sexual orientation question.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 01/10/2025 08:51

@MissScarletInTheBallroom, that deserves many, many rounds of applause!

Owly11 · 01/10/2025 09:15

I have filled it in but am now worrying that responses seem to be published on a website called commonplace. I don’t wish my comments to be public - does anyone understand this? Will my email address be publicly attached to my comments?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/10/2025 09:22

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 30/09/2025 20:00

I don't see the point of participation in a consultation as the last one was more bent than spaghetti junction. The questions will be spun and biased to get the predetermined male dominance answers, it will be brigaded by TRAs who will not have to find it advertised in an Irish newspaper hidden in an unused toilet behind a sign saying 'beward of the leopard', and all the unwanted answers that say anything terrible such as 'women have access needs and rights too' will be binned.

The court case will take place in reality as opposed to Lala Land, this is probably some attempt to demonstrate how there's no women actually wanting rights in this survey they carefully fiddled.

Yes.

DecorMadness · 01/10/2025 09:39

I’ve filled it in. And made choice comments, reminding them they are in breach of the law. I ticked prefer not to say to every question on the last screen (including postcode) I’m not letting them gather data on me after treating women so badly.

Clueless12389 · 01/10/2025 09:49

Done.

LittleBitofBread · 01/10/2025 10:18

Done. They are VERY slippery on the issue of there being a mixed pond. I reminded them of its existence on every page.

maltravers · 01/10/2025 10:22

If you leave out postcode will they ignore the response as coming from a non Londoner? I am also worried about giving details for them to “publish”. Maybe they know this is a deterrent to GCs, sounds crazy, but no more crazy than men becoming women.

Contemporaneouslyagog · 01/10/2025 10:54

I ticked the box for publish, I'm at the do not care stage now. It's definitely there to put women off completing and I've had enough, if we all do it there's nothing to worry about.
I also write my usual essay at the gender question saying that I don't have a gender as I don't believe in a repressive ideology based on stereotypes .

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 01/10/2025 11:13

If you don't press on the email link to publish, do they still take your answers into consideration? It wasn't totally clear on the survey.

BusyFrizzyLizzie · 01/10/2025 11:17

Once you submit your comment (i.e. publish) the acknowledgement page says

Thank you for your interest in Public Consultation on Hampstead Heath Bathing Ponds
Thanks for your contribution! It is not currently possible to view respondents' comments on this engagement.

So I don't think the comments are visible.

Kuretake · 01/10/2025 11:27

I think they'll all go mixed sex which is such a shame. I don't live locally anymore but I used to swim in the ladies pond several times a week, it was so good for my mental health.

Owly11 · 01/10/2025 11:34

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 01/10/2025 11:13

If you don't press on the email link to publish, do they still take your answers into consideration? It wasn't totally clear on the survey.

The email I got seemed to say that my responses wouldn’t be part of the survey unless I confirmed I was genuine by clicking the link. Then I got taken to a profile where it said my comments were being moderated and weren’t yet visible. The problem is my email address is basically my name and job so I am fucked if they link my comments to my email publicly.

SirEctor · 01/10/2025 11:57

Kuretake · 01/10/2025 11:27

I think they'll all go mixed sex which is such a shame. I don't live locally anymore but I used to swim in the ladies pond several times a week, it was so good for my mental health.

That would be so disproportionate that I instinctively feel they'd be opening themselves up to other challenges there. But I'm not a lawyer so what do I know.

ThreeWordHarpy · 01/10/2025 11:58

For iPhone/apple users, they offer the option called “hide my email” where they generate a random email address that Apple forwards to your usual address. Allows you to be totally anonymous. Not sure if Google and others offer a similar service but worth finding out.

Kuretake · 01/10/2025 12:10

SirEctor · 01/10/2025 11:57

That would be so disproportionate that I instinctively feel they'd be opening themselves up to other challenges there. But I'm not a lawyer so what do I know.

I just can't see what the alternative is given they are absolutely wedded to it being trans inclusive. Any other solution will be in breach of the equality act.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 01/10/2025 12:12

Contemporaneouslyagog · 01/10/2025 10:54

I ticked the box for publish, I'm at the do not care stage now. It's definitely there to put women off completing and I've had enough, if we all do it there's nothing to worry about.
I also write my usual essay at the gender question saying that I don't have a gender as I don't believe in a repressive ideology based on stereotypes .

Same here. I'm self employed and old enough to no longer give a shit, so filled in the whole thing.