Violent threats to GC women and why they're important

[MusettasWaltz]

I'm at uni & try and raise GC issues quietly with people likely to respond. Recently, I've been trying to explain to a male acquaintance how serious the abuse is that GC women have been through.

I showed him the website 'TERF is a slur' and similar. He thought it was vile & is GC himself, however he didn't seem to fully understand how serious that kind of stuff is. He argued that there are all kinds of antisocial weirdos online who throw vile threats around & that also a lot of trolls say exaggeratedly horrible stuff just to get a reaction, and that both types are rarely dangerous IRL.

He also argued that male public figures get trolled as much as women but that it's presented as more of a threat when it happens to women. He argued that men often banter via insults etc & male-heavy online spaces like gaming are full of violent/abusive messages, so male figures are more likely to shrug off trolling & perhaps report less.

Frankly this sounded manosphere-y almost to me though I didn' say it. I don't think women' fear of trolling is bc of thin skins- women face tangible harm irl from men, esp outspoken women.

I want to challenge this, and I think it's important to raise awareness more widely. What evidence do we have that the online abuse is not just weird trolls but has affected the public sphere?

I know there was the horrible murder at Michfest. Then physical threats to Posie Parker in Oz at rallies. What other instances of TRA violence spilling over into real life are there?

Obvs the recent terrible shootings in America are evidence of trans ideology & people related to it having radicalising effects. But I'm thinking more of instances in UK & involving GC women who've spoken out.

What about the use of the police against women like Helen Joyce and Caroline Farrow? What about the women who have lost their jobs? What about the employment tribunals?

These are all key. I was focusing on violent threats though specifically. There's some very scary stuff on Sex Matters, several threats which police luckily neutralised in time..

It's this. Yes there have always weirdos who send threats to people but when their ideology is being backed up by every institution, the police, academia and the government, it's a different kettle of fish altogether.

TRAs are weaponising the police, universities, and the courts with impunity.

2-3 women are killed each week by men in the UK. There’s a reason why women need to take male threats of violence seriously.

Men do get trolled, but nowhere near the same level and not in the same way. Nothing like the examples on terfisaslur, for example. Women MPs get vastly more threats than do males. Diane Abbot gets 10 times the number of the next MP, also a woman.

their ideology is being backed up by every institution, the police, academia and the government

This is the most worrying aspect. Especially as the contempt for women is so central to the ideology that the next steps — threats and then violence — are almost inevitable.

Women are openly assaulted at Let Women Speak events, in front of police who do nothing. Police now openly admit they ignore ‘minor’ crimes such as burglary that cause great distress to the victims. And yet they can send officers to harass or arrest totally unthreatening gender realists: five officers in the case of Graham Linehan.

Enforcing an unjust ideology is a form of corruption, and the legal system is the only state institution that seems less corrupted, in certain valuable areas. Gender realists have been winning case after case. That’s the only thing that gives me some hope.

Threats to Joanna Cherry which were considered credible by the police, JK Rowling threats, Rosie Duffield being advised to stay away from conference, Kathleen Stock harassment on campus

The Sandie Peggy tribunal had to move to dundee because of the threat by that trans ex policeman to perform a citizen's arrest on Naomi Cunningham

Julie Bindel is consistently brave. Remember when she got punched by a man in a skirt after speaking at a women's right's meeting in edinburgh?

https://x.com/bindelj/status/1922918429838684569

getting attacked in the street might well be enough to shut me up. which is of course what this man intended

For your friend, these threats in the public sphere legitimise and normalise an attitude towards a specific group of people. It leads to the acceptance of violence and the use of violence to punish and deter those women. You see it in the aggression at rallies and events, in the punching of Maria at one of the earliest LWS (I think) events- she was then required to use she/her in court against the man who punched her.

If this were targeting a specific race, he would understand the gravity of the issue.

Because of security concerns, Hilary Cass was advised to not use public transport after the Cass Review was published.

Dr Cass - who has talked about the "toxicity" of the debate around gender - told the Times she was getting some "pretty vile" emails in the wake of her report, and had been advised not to use public transport for security reasons.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68863594

Jonathan 'Jessica' Yaniv came fairly close to winning a court case in Canada that would have made it illegal for beauty therapists to refuse to wax his genitalia - literally state-mandated sexual assault.

The main reason he lost was racism - he'd deliberately targeted women of ethnic minorities, working alone who only accepted female clients - rather than misogyny.

The violent threats from men to women who speak up are important, IMO, because they're a symptom. The logical outcome of the State allowing itself to become so captured that saying no to this special caste of men is literally unthinkable and generates absolute entitled fury, safe in the knowledge the police and courts will look the other way.

Your friend likely won't grasp this for a good while because it all sounds so mental. Even my DH, as good a man as you'll ever meet, thought I was exaggerating for years.

Lia Thomas or Sandie Peggie are good examples. Show him what happens to women who say they're uncomfortable undressing in front of a large biological male.

Thank you, these are terrible..

I suppose he's seeing the threats women face as just typical online abuse, and missing that it translates to the public sphere & is specifically trying to silence GC women.

Stuff like the Tyler Robinson murder is hammering home that the online world is not separate from the real one.

You've identified a really serious issue OP.
More broadly, I think it's worth noting how quickly the trans movement has embraced violence and threats of violence as its MO.

Other rights campaigns I can think of, some of which I've been an active supporter of, start off with years of peaceful demonstrations and political representation, and only after they have been met with batons and bullets do they turn to violence.

The trans movement seems to have skipped the first bit and gone straight to threatening speech and violent acts.

Well done for speaking up OP.

You may well have seen it but the thread of ‘Sarah Jane’ Baker is a very concerning document of a criminally unhinged fed man who is enabled by the police in his violent threats to women. Towards the end of the thread there are some eitungd by a man who has developed a fetish for being tortured naked in public and was planning to do that as part of a demonstration against women.

He also said that he would have ‘obliterated’ the woman he encountered in the ladies toilets had she directly challenged him for being there.

Violent assaults
Maria Maclachlan as mentioned above
The elderly lady in New Zealand at Kellie-Jay’s rally (where the mob stormed her meeting and made her fear for her life) who was punched by a trans activist and broke her cheek bone
The 11 yr old sexually assaulted at knifepoint by male ‘Katie’ Dolotowski in the ladies toilets he was permitted to use by his social worker (he was on bail for taking photos of a young girl in the ladies toilets- go figure).
The women sexually harassed in prison by these men but punished if they complain.
The female security attacked at a LWS event where the trans activists had co opted the feminist statue ahead of the event.

There is a long list.

The point is that men have a far greater capacity to kill a woman than another man. We have very little chance if a man decides to hurt us and he can kill us with his bare hands. A man can at least defend himself more effectively. Obviously there is a disparity between big men and small men but there is a huge disparity between almost all men and women.

Maybe show him some videos of the raging mob of men physically threatening and intimidating women that forms when women try and speak in public. Then point out how the police frequently just turn a blind eye.

As a slight aside, I think that movies have something to answer for in public perception of the disparity between men and women. I often see fight scenes in movies where a woman successfully takes on a number of large, sometimes armed, men. Obviously everyone knows it is fiction but it seems to implant the idea that we are stronger compared to men than reality.

My dd seems to have an exaggerated view of her ability to fight off a man and it’s quite a hard conversation to have without damaging her confidence.

Not just NC, the judge as well.

Both these posts show why it's so maddening that Stonewall is responsible for introducing all of this into large organisations and companies through their diversity index.
They've pushed a warped sense of equality law for so long and side stepped any independent review of their representation of the law because of who they are. It's obvious it was all for £££££, after all they had achieved great things for LGB's - who deserved their increased rights - and in their panic to stay relevant and get the cash rolling in they through females under the bus.

This is a great video by Maria

Oxford professor Selina Todd had to be accompanied to her lectures by male staff after credible threats against her were reported on social media.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-51248684.amp

That was five years ago, I don't know what the situation is now. The university aspect may hit home a bit stronger as you're current students.

Just as an example on this point; I watched Ballerina (John Wick successor) with teeny tiny Ana de Armas as a ballet dancer kicking shit out of allsorts. Absolutely hopeless representation of reality. Movies do play into it.

I'd be more receptive to both the 'just bantz innit' and the 'these are unstable fantisizing oddballs somewhere in a basement, the internet's full of them and if they actually had to stand in front of a woman to say it they'd run screaming for mummy' lines if there was anything even approaching equal treatment.

But there isn't.

Women have been arrested, interviewed by police and threatened by the establishment for stating reality online. No malice, no threat, just reality. A man's performatively hurt feelings were enough for the state to launch to silence her.

Terfisaslur is something that turns the stomach of anyone normal and psychologically not warped out of all recognition. It's appalling. It's the sort of graphic sexually violent fantasy that should sound real alarm bells and forecast escalation as much as being wholly unacceptable, and if any arrests or follow up has ever happened, I've yet to hear of it. No boundaries have ever been presented. None.

Women are mercilessly harassed in person if they dare to stand in public defending their legal rights and saying the issues women experience with men identifying into their spaces and removing their identity and language from them. They are screamed at, threatened, obscene messages are chalked right where they're talking about highly sensitive experiences such as assault, and we've even had SMPs standing gurning like a pair of muppets under a sign calling for unsubmissive women to be decapitated. The police stand looking bored and let it roll. No boundaries.

No woman has ever behaved like that in a demonstration, because the women protesting are not internet addled nutjobs and have actual boundaries and morals. And because they'd be leapt on by the police if they even stated reality too loudly or tied a ribbon to something.

It's state enabled. It is sanctioned. Witness the whining and howling from government funded bodies at the thought of actually having to let women have their rights in reality rather than on paper, such as not having to undress in front of a man without consenting to and going into a mixed sex space? Or not let a man strip search them to provide him with the happies he needs that everyone's pretending he's something he's not and he's been given special access to her body?

It's fucking evil. And Starmer's apparently borrowed Boris's fridge to hide in when the subject comes up, because he wants it to roll without having to admit it and say so.

Behaviour not presented with boundaries does eventually escalate. Of course it does. And the whole queer movement is based around breaking boundaries, for no reason beyond a toddler Me Smash It Mummy Look At Me kind of mentality. Which is largely why evidence keeps on demonstrating it has attracted many unwell people.

Check out SEEN podcasts on Substack called No Fear, No Favour. One of the journalists mentions being threatened with having her ovaries cut out and stamped on. The kind of threat that there’s no male equivalent of.

I think you've correctly identified your acquaintance is using manosphere arguments, he's shown where his sympathies lie and I think you should reconsider trying to educate him. There isn't a magic bullet that's going to make him come round to your way of thinking, and its a waste of your resources.
All you need to do is be clear about who you are and what you believe, and stand your ground.