MAKE Southwest - not supporting EHRC or inclusive spaces

[Twoshoesnewshoes]

I live near a MAKE Southwest gallery - a great combo of art gallery, local artists shop, and workshops.
i had noticed that they had signed the open letter recently to say that they Supreme Court ruling regarding the law on single sex provision was unworkable and that they didn’t support it.

i was in there today and spoke to a couple of people in the office about it.
the man in there said he was not aware of the letter. I explained that, if their female toilets are actually mixed sex, these are therefore not inclusive spaces for eg some females who follow Islam or Judaism, or have experienced sexual violence, or either sex who want privacy and dignity from the opposite sex.
he said okay, and that he would pass this on - he was pleasant, polite and objective.

the women in the office said, about the above mentioned females ‘well they can use the accessible toilet which is unisex’
i said, okay, fine, but in not indicating that your women’s loo is actually a mixed sex space, you are not allowing those women to make an informed choice.
she repeated that they could use the accessible toilet, I repeated what I said.
same again.
then I left.

I’m really disappointed that MAKE Southwest are not providing inclusive spaces for females in vulnerable/minority groups.
it’s a great place but I can’t be use a company which doesn’t support inclusivity.

any thoughts?

Well done! You really tried hard there to make them see sense. Hopefully some of your clear, cogent arguments may sink in and get passed on.

Thank you @NotAtMyAge
it’s hard (emotionally) when it’s a woman arguing for not including vulnerable women 😢

Twits. The obvious workable solution from what you’ve said would be for anyone not comfortable using the appropriate single sex facilities to use the accessible ones. Not ideal because obviously that’s not who they’re meant for, but better than the idiocy they’re proposing.

So the woman is saying the usual.
Women should step to one side and allow males into the service provided for women and if displaced by a man should displace someone from the adapted service put in place to allow them access the public space on par with able bodied people.

Sounds about right 🤨

Good for you for bringing that up in person.👍

Thank you!
yes it’s so true about ‘ women should step aside’.
it just feels deceitful- if it’s actually a mixed sex space then declare it (maybe one of those skirt/trouser people signs alongside the skirt one) so women can make an informed choice.
but I think then they’d get backlash… so they don’t make it clear. It’s disingenuous.

@spainiac revolting post - have reported

Why? This is the majority of the public's opinion.

Except the law of this country IS that women’s spaces are women only.

Afaik the majority of the public - whether Christian or not - agree with the Supreme Court ruling that facilities marked as being for women should indeed be for women. Do you have a problem with that?

It is not the majority view of the country that female Muslims should “go back to where they came from”, for a start, they’d be going back to Bristol or Southampton, London or Manchester

Or you know its possible that some British women ( the ones who sent relllies off on the Mayflower) can convert to a faith?

The whole burning at the stake, stabbing, shooting and blowing people up has dropped out of fashion as a British value but allowing different faith pratice is a newish but British fashion

Putting the racism aside, actually Christian and atheist women (such as me) also want their dignity and privacy respected too.

Mixed sex toilets and changing rooms are generally unwanted.

What an eye opener that post was! Apparently women who are Muslim should not expect any consideration in the UK! Well, we see all types on these threads.

I do get a bit perplexed about the vulnerable women, religious minority argument for single sex spaces, not because i disagree with it.

i just think that the simpler the argument the better one can hold the line. So i will say if required,

“If it says woman on the door that is what it means, i am legally entitled to the assurance that i will not come across any type of male, in the promised space for women, you are not entitled to make any exceptions on behalf of me and other women and you can fuck off with your excuses.”

Not everyone is willing to make a scene but i wish more women would.

I have in a traditional London pub, where there was a toilet for men and then gender neutral toilets, no women's toilet at all.

I made a big fat fuss at the small bar and cleared the pub in an everyone out moment.

I explained the Emma Watson/JKR situation to my 12 (almost 13) year old dd today.

She said "but why would a woman argue against other women being able to have their own spaces and sports"?. She was genuinely perplexed that this position was being adopted by a woman. She couldn't understand why a woman would try to undermine women's rights.

The message being that 'good' women are submissive and enabling to men, and women unable to enable are excluded from women's facilities and spaces.

It's male supremacism. Binary. Sex based.

The first job of women's spaces is to be inclusive and accessible to all women. The first job of disabled spaces is to be inclusive and accessible to those unable to physically access the unadapted provision for their sex.

Meeting the needs of those who do not want to use the facilities of their sex has to be planned without interfering with either of the other groups. They are not more important than everyone else. And lets be honest, we are not talking about trans people in general, this is exclusively about the right of men to own women's spaces.

Women have rights in law too. And places like this just go right on proving exactly why women need cast iron legal protections for equality. They won't be allowed it unless people like this are forced to do so, grudgingly, rather than risk being sued.

It is not 'unworkable' to allow women equality.
It is not 'unworkable' to expect men to respect women's equality and access - unfamiliar to them, yes. Unwanted, yes. But not 'unworkable'.
It is not 'unworkable' to say no to anti social and badly behaved men. Scary, yes. Potentially dangerous, yes. But that's yet another reason why they shouldnt be in women's spaces.

Well done arguing back OP. It's going to take a lot of us and a lot of mention of legal action.

I didn't see the deleted post, but Muslims aren't the only women who can't share private spaces with unrelated men for religious reasons. Orthodox Jewish women can't either and they are certainly British-born. In any case why should ANY women be expected to share spaces, services and sports with men, however those men identify? We had to fight hard enough to win those rights without handing them over to men with unprovable inner "womanly" feelings.

Nigel Farage says a lot of things, most of them unworkable. Even if by some nightmare he became Prime Minister he would have the law and the courts to contend with. He really hasn't a clue about how things actually work. 🙄

Your reading skills leave a lot to be desired. This is what the OP actually wrote:

"if their female toilets are actually mixed sex, these are therefore not inclusive spaces for eg some females who follow Islam or Judaism, or have experienced sexual violence, or either sex who want privacy and dignity from the opposite sex."

You are the person who made it all about Muslims.

The OP did not specifically reference Muslim people just religious minorities.

Muslim people are not a specific group, and just like Christian’s come in a variety of ethnic backgrounds, and different practices, only some are devout, only some where specific attire

Farrage did not say he would deport all Muslims, not that i would ever support Reform.

Any government could only deport non UK citizens, and a large minority of citizens are none white, non Christian’s who have been in the UK for many generations.

All you are managing to reveal here is a shocking level of ignorance of what makes up the citizens of the UK.

Away with your racism it stinks.

thats an if not a when and (ETA) it wasn't about 800,000 female muslims nor 800,000 muslims.

You've obviously taught her to have an enquiring mind and think fully about a subject. 👍🏼