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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans row threatens to overshadow Lib Dem conference

266 replies

IwantToRetire · 17/09/2025 20:38

Sir Ed Davey faces activist revolt over party rules that allow biological men to take women’s posts

The current rules allow those who “self-identify as women” to stand for party posts set aside for women, which the activists say dilutes the chance that biological women can reach the top of the party.

The vote will be put before conference on Saturday, but it is understood that trans rights activists will try to get it cancelled to avoid embarrassment. This is despite a YouGov poll showing that three-quarters of Lib Dem members do not support the party’s stance on allowing gender self-ID.

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/17/trans-row-threatens-to-overshadow-lib-dem-conference/

Also at https://archive.is/hykSr

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
DuesToTheDirt · 21/09/2025 16:41

fromorbit · 21/09/2025 06:28

Trainwreck interview on GB news

‘If you go down the biological route, you will uncover a minefield’

Liberal Democrats in England Former Chair Lucas North says the Liberal Democrats have been ‘very clear’ that the view of the party is ‘trans-women are women’.
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1969441398479843674

Telegraph

Lib Dem conference descends into trans row
Pro-trans activists quash vote on biological men taking female roles within first hour of party conference
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/20/lib-dem-conference-trans-row-ed-davey-bournemouth/

"Can women have a penis? Yes, I've met women with penises."

OH DO FUCK OFF LUCAS NORTH YOU UTTER MORON.

MarieDeGournay · 21/09/2025 17:57

DuesToTheDirt · 21/09/2025 16:41

"Can women have a penis? Yes, I've met women with penises."

OH DO FUCK OFF LUCAS NORTH YOU UTTER MORON.

Forgive me, I know this is a serious topic with serious consequences and ramifications... but when I read
'Yes, I've met women with penises'
I LOLed and LMAOed and 😂 and all the other indications of the only possible reaction to
'Yes, I've met women with penises'.

Seriously, though, in these days of Reverse Ferreting on trans issues, it is valuable to have it stated clearly again in black and white.

I'm not sure if it was the Pedant or the Clown in me that made me wonder did
'Yes, I've met women with penises'
mean that he has met several women with one penis each, or several women with several penises each?😁

borntobequiet · 21/09/2025 18:14

Well you know what they say about a dog with two dicks. Those ladies must be seriously happy.

fromorbit · 21/09/2025 19:05

More footage of Lib Dems looking clueless. When do you think they will realise people are going to keep asking them about this.. forever.

teresa smith

Max Wilkinson is the LibDems
Culture Media and Sport spokesperson.

He’s the MP for Cheltenham.

He seems uninterested in women’s rights to fair representation or the implications of the UKSupremeCourt ruling.

He calls it “the issue of genitalia”
https://x.com/treesey/status/1969744945662558717

teresa smith (@treesey) on X

Max Wilkinson is the @LibDems Culture Media and Sport spokesperson. He’s the MP for Cheltenham. He seems uninterested in women’s rights to fair representation or the implications of the @UKSupremeCourt ruling. He calls it “the issue of genitalia”

https://x.com/treesey/status/1969744945662558717

ItsCoolForCats · 21/09/2025 19:16

I am so fucking sick of these men. That Lucas Moran and the MP above dismissing women's safeguarding and rights to single sex spaces as "the issue of genitalia". I am sick of their bingo card of ridiculous arguments - bigotry, sex is too complex, intersex people blah blah - that they use so they never have to address the substance of women's arguments and concerns.

GallantKumquat · 21/09/2025 19:22

MarieDeGournay · 21/09/2025 12:01

Overshadowed by the trans issue? I gathered from the media that it was going to be overshadowed by the immigration issue. That's a lot of overshadowing....

Davey's performance on Pierce Morgan was one of the most hilarious and clarifying moments of video I've seen in a long time. 🤣😂😅😳😬 And the Lib Dems doubled down on it in the conference. It's amazing! No matter how many times politicians get burned by the trans debate, there are always those who go back for more.

DuesToTheDirt · 21/09/2025 19:25

ItsCoolForCats · 21/09/2025 19:16

I am so fucking sick of these men. That Lucas Moran and the MP above dismissing women's safeguarding and rights to single sex spaces as "the issue of genitalia". I am sick of their bingo card of ridiculous arguments - bigotry, sex is too complex, intersex people blah blah - that they use so they never have to address the substance of women's arguments and concerns.

Sex is only complex if you're a half-wit. There are a lot of half-wits around these days.

GallantKumquat · 21/09/2025 19:32

ItsCoolForCats · 21/09/2025 19:16

I am so fucking sick of these men. That Lucas Moran and the MP above dismissing women's safeguarding and rights to single sex spaces as "the issue of genitalia". I am sick of their bingo card of ridiculous arguments - bigotry, sex is too complex, intersex people blah blah - that they use so they never have to address the substance of women's arguments and concerns.

At the risk of being crude (and if there's a way to put it more politely let me know) if they want to argue that child rape, reproductive rights, and maternity leave are just "issue(s) of genitalia", and inappropriate subjects for the the state to inveigh upon, by all means they should try and take that argument to the voter. 😳

borntobequiet · 21/09/2025 19:34

That GB News guy has very expressive eyebrows.

ItsCoolForCats · 21/09/2025 20:03

GallantKumquat · 21/09/2025 19:32

At the risk of being crude (and if there's a way to put it more politely let me know) if they want to argue that child rape, reproductive rights, and maternity leave are just "issue(s) of genitalia", and inappropriate subjects for the the state to inveigh upon, by all means they should try and take that argument to the voter. 😳

Edited

I know. The fucking cheek of them. And that's exactly my point. They never engage with these type of arguments. They just bleat on about 'bathroom bans' and segregation and how sad it makes them, and, infuriatingly, mainstream media never challenges them on this, so they continue peddling ridiculous arguments. Lucas North's speech at the conference, dismissing the debate as bigotry (while they all clapped like seals) and his subsequent interview on GB News has actually enraged me. I am so, so sick of it.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/09/2025 20:12

ItsCoolForCats · 21/09/2025 20:03

I know. The fucking cheek of them. And that's exactly my point. They never engage with these type of arguments. They just bleat on about 'bathroom bans' and segregation and how sad it makes them, and, infuriatingly, mainstream media never challenges them on this, so they continue peddling ridiculous arguments. Lucas North's speech at the conference, dismissing the debate as bigotry (while they all clapped like seals) and his subsequent interview on GB News has actually enraged me. I am so, so sick of it.

It makes me really fucking sad that they don't believe women should have the right to exist in law.

EdithStourton · 21/09/2025 20:45

DuesToTheDirt · 21/09/2025 19:25

Sex is only complex if you're a half-wit. There are a lot of half-wits around these days.

I came across the term 'midwit' a while ago.
A midwit can look quite clever just as long as they don't have to manage some independent thought.

But then they find themselves on a bandwagon rolling fast towards the buffers and they have no idea how to get off...

BundleBoogie · 21/09/2025 21:46

MarieDeGournay · 21/09/2025 17:57

Forgive me, I know this is a serious topic with serious consequences and ramifications... but when I read
'Yes, I've met women with penises'
I LOLed and LMAOed and 😂 and all the other indications of the only possible reaction to
'Yes, I've met women with penises'.

Seriously, though, in these days of Reverse Ferreting on trans issues, it is valuable to have it stated clearly again in black and white.

I'm not sure if it was the Pedant or the Clown in me that made me wonder did
'Yes, I've met women with penises'
mean that he has met several women with one penis each, or several women with several penises each?😁

Maybe they keep one on their head?

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2025 21:50

EdithStourton · 21/09/2025 20:45

I came across the term 'midwit' a while ago.
A midwit can look quite clever just as long as they don't have to manage some independent thought.

But then they find themselves on a bandwagon rolling fast towards the buffers and they have no idea how to get off...

Are midwits more likely to be middle class? (Looks at the LD conference)

I have to say the LD flag waving looks just so insincere and snobbish. It was "we are ok to wave the flag because we are the right type of people" nonsense.

Just bloody wave it because you want to rather than these ridiculous fake shows or patriotism. It was still like they were utterly embarrassed to have the flag. It felt awkward and staged.

But at least it seemed better than the ever increasing ridiculousness of the last night of the proms with those god awful EU berets which have become the political statement and statement of upper middle class snobbery. I found it slightly amusing because it was the same day as the march in London and it was a mix of people who were wanting to wave the UK flag, but probably were heading into London with it well hidden so they weren't mistaken as the wrong sort. And the beret wears who I feel are probably my red line in terms of free speech and should be criminalised for crimes against fashion. I'm pro EU and like I say, like the proms but can't bare this hideous smug twattiness and it has the effect of momentarily making me want to say "I'd rather have a pint with Nig".

And this is really the problem for me. All this reclaiming stuff, is hilarious because it's been entrenched in this sense of snobbery and yet more virtue signalling. It's fake and insufferable.

It comes back to the concept of the Lanyard Class.

DH has been saying for a few weeks, "for most of the flag wavers, it's about everything turning to shit and not having much to look forward to rather than racism. If you gave them an extra bank holiday and some flags to wave most of it would disappear overnight".

I thought he was talking bollocks when he first said it but I'm definitely coming around to the idea rapidly.

It's not a culture war, it's a class war.

Weirdly he ended up having a drunken conversation with a few guys last night about it. They said they wanted a local pub again. They said they just wanted something to be proud of. That's it. It's a feeling that everything has run down and there's nothing left (which feeds into this sense of disillusionment and almost 'Make Britain Great Again'). That owes a lot more to economics and these middle class waving sessions claiming it to be racist are somewhat missing the economic story here because, well luxury beliefs and attitudes because they are sheltered from it.

Weirdly this year has been the first where we haven't done really well in the football or had a royal occasion to wave flags too at so I wonder if there's something in it.

I can't help but feel the LDs attempt to 'reclaim the flag' really misses the mark on so many levels.

Out of touch, hypocritical, fake, snobby and smug superiority where they know best so are above listening to the 'other side', because they are on the right side.

Just fuck off.

(And lord knows if I'm saying this, then it's going down even worse in other quarters).

IwantToRetire · 22/09/2025 01:18

"issue(s) of genitalia"

Apart from making him look like he hasn't bothered to even listen to any of the many discussion around the issue, cant help but wonder if it is just about "genitalia" why do so many men objectify women's bodies, pay to watch violent pornographic images of women, under pay women, expect women to have their babies, and 2 of them kill women every week.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 22/09/2025 07:23

IwantToRetire · 22/09/2025 01:18

"issue(s) of genitalia"

Apart from making him look like he hasn't bothered to even listen to any of the many discussion around the issue, cant help but wonder if it is just about "genitalia" why do so many men objectify women's bodies, pay to watch violent pornographic images of women, under pay women, expect women to have their babies, and 2 of them kill women every week.

I guess violence against women and girls is just 'an issue of genitalia' and not really worth talking about.

Move on now ladies. Stop being silly wims. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

borntobequiet · 22/09/2025 07:31

I have to say the LD flag waving looks just so insincere and snobbish. It was "we are ok to wave the flag because we are the right type of people" nonsense.

It had the odd effect of making the conference look like a village fete in that village from Hot Fuzz. Ed Davey’s entrance with the marching band was beyond parody.

fromorbit · 22/09/2025 07:39

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2025 21:50

Are midwits more likely to be middle class? (Looks at the LD conference)

I have to say the LD flag waving looks just so insincere and snobbish. It was "we are ok to wave the flag because we are the right type of people" nonsense.

Just bloody wave it because you want to rather than these ridiculous fake shows or patriotism. It was still like they were utterly embarrassed to have the flag. It felt awkward and staged.

But at least it seemed better than the ever increasing ridiculousness of the last night of the proms with those god awful EU berets which have become the political statement and statement of upper middle class snobbery. I found it slightly amusing because it was the same day as the march in London and it was a mix of people who were wanting to wave the UK flag, but probably were heading into London with it well hidden so they weren't mistaken as the wrong sort. And the beret wears who I feel are probably my red line in terms of free speech and should be criminalised for crimes against fashion. I'm pro EU and like I say, like the proms but can't bare this hideous smug twattiness and it has the effect of momentarily making me want to say "I'd rather have a pint with Nig".

And this is really the problem for me. All this reclaiming stuff, is hilarious because it's been entrenched in this sense of snobbery and yet more virtue signalling. It's fake and insufferable.

It comes back to the concept of the Lanyard Class.

DH has been saying for a few weeks, "for most of the flag wavers, it's about everything turning to shit and not having much to look forward to rather than racism. If you gave them an extra bank holiday and some flags to wave most of it would disappear overnight".

I thought he was talking bollocks when he first said it but I'm definitely coming around to the idea rapidly.

It's not a culture war, it's a class war.

Weirdly he ended up having a drunken conversation with a few guys last night about it. They said they wanted a local pub again. They said they just wanted something to be proud of. That's it. It's a feeling that everything has run down and there's nothing left (which feeds into this sense of disillusionment and almost 'Make Britain Great Again'). That owes a lot more to economics and these middle class waving sessions claiming it to be racist are somewhat missing the economic story here because, well luxury beliefs and attitudes because they are sheltered from it.

Weirdly this year has been the first where we haven't done really well in the football or had a royal occasion to wave flags too at so I wonder if there's something in it.

I can't help but feel the LDs attempt to 'reclaim the flag' really misses the mark on so many levels.

Out of touch, hypocritical, fake, snobby and smug superiority where they know best so are above listening to the 'other side', because they are on the right side.

Just fuck off.

(And lord knows if I'm saying this, then it's going down even worse in other quarters).

It does look insincere, however at least they realise they have to do something.

It is like the old guy desperately trying to look relevant but failing, he can see things are changing but can't get it right.

Yet I think it might be enough to get a few a few wet Tory votes to flip to them. It is not enough to stop Reform at all. If anything it goes to show Farage's instincts are right as does the absurd confusion over what women are.

I think the Lib Dem base is baked in there are plenty of people who like them, but it can't expand much more. They are effective enough to undermine both Labour and the Tories which ultimately helps Reform, but hampered by the own fear of rocking the boat. They are too scared to even brand themselves as the full on lets go back into the EU party which is a potentially solid group.

DeanElderberry · 22/09/2025 07:57

How astonishing that a party descended from the Liberals, political home of Cyril Smith and Clement Freud, proves to be dodgy on the safety of women and children. Who'd have thunk it?

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 22/09/2025 08:37

I dont think the leadership thought about what they were going to do if the SC judgment went against them.

Everyone working on LGBT+ rights, and perhaps womens rights too, just assumed the judgment would say men with GRC are women.

If they had a plan b, at least theyd have something to say - either we support it and this is what it means for our policies, or we will change laws.

But they are left mumbling because they couldn't envisage this scenario happening.

anyolddinosaur · 22/09/2025 08:55

Presumably the flag wearing by the libs was an attempt to attract the "we are fed up of the major parties" people. It just looked stupid.

The libs have had most success in places where they are the main alternative to the tories. I dont know how that will hold up faced with reform. There is an interesting article on lib dem voters https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/latest-insights/what-next-for-the-liberal-democrats/ and how many are voting against another party rather than for the lib dems.

EdithStourton · 22/09/2025 09:06

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2025 21:50

Are midwits more likely to be middle class? (Looks at the LD conference)

I have to say the LD flag waving looks just so insincere and snobbish. It was "we are ok to wave the flag because we are the right type of people" nonsense.

Just bloody wave it because you want to rather than these ridiculous fake shows or patriotism. It was still like they were utterly embarrassed to have the flag. It felt awkward and staged.

But at least it seemed better than the ever increasing ridiculousness of the last night of the proms with those god awful EU berets which have become the political statement and statement of upper middle class snobbery. I found it slightly amusing because it was the same day as the march in London and it was a mix of people who were wanting to wave the UK flag, but probably were heading into London with it well hidden so they weren't mistaken as the wrong sort. And the beret wears who I feel are probably my red line in terms of free speech and should be criminalised for crimes against fashion. I'm pro EU and like I say, like the proms but can't bare this hideous smug twattiness and it has the effect of momentarily making me want to say "I'd rather have a pint with Nig".

And this is really the problem for me. All this reclaiming stuff, is hilarious because it's been entrenched in this sense of snobbery and yet more virtue signalling. It's fake and insufferable.

It comes back to the concept of the Lanyard Class.

DH has been saying for a few weeks, "for most of the flag wavers, it's about everything turning to shit and not having much to look forward to rather than racism. If you gave them an extra bank holiday and some flags to wave most of it would disappear overnight".

I thought he was talking bollocks when he first said it but I'm definitely coming around to the idea rapidly.

It's not a culture war, it's a class war.

Weirdly he ended up having a drunken conversation with a few guys last night about it. They said they wanted a local pub again. They said they just wanted something to be proud of. That's it. It's a feeling that everything has run down and there's nothing left (which feeds into this sense of disillusionment and almost 'Make Britain Great Again'). That owes a lot more to economics and these middle class waving sessions claiming it to be racist are somewhat missing the economic story here because, well luxury beliefs and attitudes because they are sheltered from it.

Weirdly this year has been the first where we haven't done really well in the football or had a royal occasion to wave flags too at so I wonder if there's something in it.

I can't help but feel the LDs attempt to 'reclaim the flag' really misses the mark on so many levels.

Out of touch, hypocritical, fake, snobby and smug superiority where they know best so are above listening to the 'other side', because they are on the right side.

Just fuck off.

(And lord knows if I'm saying this, then it's going down even worse in other quarters).

I think midwits come from any social class, but the MC have the confidence to make more noise.

Picking up on what your DH found...
I have lived most of my life in the same fairly rural area. I'm very involved in local life and I know a lot of people from a wide range of backgrounds. I'm also on several countryside pages on FB.

And people are pissed off. They try to obey the law (other than speed restrictions, and the odd bit of planning...) and they look at the failure to control blatant illegal immigration with utter bewilderment. They make a connection with rising population (largely fuelled by immigration) and the housing shortage, hence their kids not being able to buy a place and move out, and hence the sheer number of families living in static caravans while building a house in what was their parents' large side garden (surprisingly common down the back lanes where I live). Most of them have no issue with individual immigrants - the bloke who runs the takeaway in the former village pub and has a lock-in on a Tuesday night is everybody's mate. They have an issue with illegality, and the sheer unmanageable scale of the current inflow of people.

They are feeling squeezed, too, by years of being undercut in their trades by Pawel from Poland. Pawel, even if he has a wife and kids, is still willing to live in cramped accommodation and save like buggery for a few years, because when he moves back to Poland, the £££ he (and his wife) has saved will buy him (them) an actual house more or less outright in his home village. Whereas if they live in the same circumstances (and often do), they might make it to a small 3-bed with a tiny garden and a massive mortgage. Meanwhile Pawel, mortgage free, is planting his orchard - and they're FB friends with their old mate Pawel, and see what he's doing.

They also see their country changing around them in ways they did not vote for and which were never brought up for discussion in the public sphere. Rural people are VERY pissed off with the rate of development in the countryside - I have had so many conversations in which we all mourn the loss of good arable land to housing, road building, electricity sub-stations, industrial units and the like.

There is a feeling of powerlessness and complete disconnection from the political process. And I genuinely worry that if our (smug, remote, up itself) political class doesn't clue on bloody fast, shit will go down. When, where or how I don't know, but it won't be pretty.

And these are not bad people. They are pissed off-people. Pissed off because wages have been held down, because their kids can't afford decent accommodation, because a fucking massive housing estate is being glued onto the edge of their village so the school is now overcrowded...

Where do we go from here?

fromorbit · 22/09/2025 17:19

It has happened AGAIN! Another Lib Dem MP looking absurd. This is going to keep happening as long as the Lib Dems are keen to keep looking dumb.

GB NEWS
'I’m not going to give you a straight answer on that.' Lib Dem MP Wendy Chamberlain [Chief whip] refuses to say whether a woman can have a penis, calling it 'a bit of a gotcha' question. Pressed on the Supreme Court ruling, she says: 'I respect the ruling'
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1969693080803545296

The thing is as well due to GB news increased ratings they can't avoid going on. Sooner or later the other channels will join in.

GB News (@GBNEWS) on X

'I’m not going to give you a straight answer on that.' Lib Dem MP Wendy Chamberlain refuses to say whether a woman can have a penis, calling it 'a bit of a gotcha' question. Pressed on the Supreme Court ruling, she says: 'I respect the ruling'

https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1969693080803545296

BundleBoogie · 22/09/2025 17:27

fromorbit · 22/09/2025 17:19

It has happened AGAIN! Another Lib Dem MP looking absurd. This is going to keep happening as long as the Lib Dems are keen to keep looking dumb.

GB NEWS
'I’m not going to give you a straight answer on that.' Lib Dem MP Wendy Chamberlain [Chief whip] refuses to say whether a woman can have a penis, calling it 'a bit of a gotcha' question. Pressed on the Supreme Court ruling, she says: 'I respect the ruling'
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1969693080803545296

The thing is as well due to GB news increased ratings they can't avoid going on. Sooner or later the other channels will join in.

What a ridiculous woman! They really really don’t need the EHRC guidance in order to remove a few words from their utterly ridiculous policy.

If they can’t understand the plain English of the Supreme Court judgement, they shouldn’t be allowed to vote let alone run the country.

ItsCoolForCats · 22/09/2025 18:58

Wendy Chamberlain was also asked this on the Nicky Campbell show on 5 Live today, and she talked shite then too.

It is a gotcha question, but journalists are going to keep asking politicians this because they make themselves look like idiots every time.