Hundreds of firms warn new guidance on single sex spaces is ‘unworkable’ and would cause ‘significant economic harm’

[IwantToRetire]

More than 650 organisations have urged Bridget Phillipson to ‘take immediate action to prevent these proposals from moving forward’

“We, the undersigned businesses and organisations, are writing to express our deep concern at proposals seeking to enforce blanket, mandatory exclusion of trans people from gendered spaces and services.

“The proposals made in the EHRC’s draft Code of Practice under the Equality Act would have serious and far-reaching consequences for UK businesses, our employees, and our customers.

“Many of us have spent years building inclusive environments where all customers and staff feel safe and welcome. These proposals would tell us to act in ways that directly contradict those commitments; undermining trust, damaging reputations, and risking the loss of valued staff and customers.”

They also express concern that the proposals would put them at “constant risk of complaints and litigation from multiple directions”, as well as forcing “business staff into the unacceptable role of ‘gender police’”.

“Such practices are not only deeply invasive, but likely impossible to implement without breaching Article 8 of The Human Rights Act, which protects rights to privacy, and risking discriminating against valued trans customers and colleagues”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/supreme-court-trans-single-sex-spaces-b2826924.html

So women's rights are less important than commercial compliance.

How much does it cost to print off two A4 sheets one saying Male the other Female?

You're right, it's too expensive to add a unisex toilet to the existing men's, women's and disabled toilets.

So why bother? Men's + women's + accessible disabled = 100% of the population catered for.

What's the justification for a 'too expensive' addition to facilitate about 0.2% of the population.

Europe can do whatever it pleases. Makes not a jot of difference to us. This is Terf island, we do things differently here.

Hmm! I visit Spain a couple of times a year so I'm aware my experience can't compare with someone who lives there but since we're talking anecdotally, I don't think mixed sex facilities are all that common. Where I visit, a small city near, but not in, a popular resort area, all venues except maybe the very smallest bars have designated male and female toilets.

Thinking back to my last visit I think the opposite is true, even tiny almost "hole in the wall" type places where I was prepared for there to be one toilet but was pleasantly surprised that they'd managed to fit 2 in for Male & Female. I genuinely can't think of a place that only had one loo, even in places I'd expect that if they were in UK.

Maybe Louise lives in a more pro regressive part of Spain.

@Queen0fTheNorth

While I was typing you posted this above.

Europe can do whatever it pleases. Makes not a jot of difference to us. This is Terf island, we do things differently here.

100% The whole burble about Spain is meaningless.

trans in the city and global butterflies are on the list you'll be astonished to learn

aren't they all chaps anyway? no need for ladies loo there...

Good to see that this place is on the list. Always most reassuring to know that when a male follows your 7-year-old daughter into the ladies' that there's no need to worry - it's because the business has inclusive values and is averse to safe-guarding-related "policing" of sexed spaces.

https://barneysplay.co.uk/

I don't think Starmer is stupid enough to do it. But if framed as an emergency response to an Awful Calamity it could actually be done just as quickly as they want.

464. Fukthekclockhairstudio

I've been looking for a new hairdresser, they sound reliable and like they won't cut my fringe too short, don't they?

Thanks for reading through. All that pink and blue just put me off.

We, the undersigned businesses and organisations, are writing to express our deep concern at proposals seeking to enforce blanket, mandatory exclusion of trans people from gendered spaces and services.

Do they know something we don't? Where is the exclusion from gendered spaces and services?

I don’t really understand either of the arguments that the signers of this letter are making.

• Too expensive to change it back. From what I can make out the majority of these companies have just replaced the sign on the door of the womens toilet (never the mens for some unknown reason). Not exactly a massive expense,
• Policing it. Is any woman expecting businesses to put a guard on the door to check sex at entry? I’ve never encountered that expectation amongst any of the women I have seen or heard discussion this topic. The expectation is simply that there will be accurate signage and that if a report is made to staff that someone is in the wrong facility that the staff member will address the issue at that point. Now it should be expected that this would be a rare event and something that would be treated seriously as a concerning violation, because the signage will clearly state the space is for women only and there is a common understanding of what that means so any male breaching that is clearly behaving in a way that should cause alarm. We know from all the people who tell us, that Trans Women are gentle, caring, unassuming sorts who would never ever want to act in such a way as to cause distress to another human being so they will clearly adhere to the rules and respect the boundaries that have been made clear to them. Or are the businesses who signed this letter expecting something different?

we went to a cuban style restaurant in this country and the toilets were marked senor and senorita

son in law only realised is was in the wrong one when he came face to face with me 😀

The construction industry famous for providing toilets and drying rooms on small build sites.

Lovely to see another possible non-law abiding company in an industry which tops the biggest killer of employees in the UK each year.

You don’t speak for all women in Spain.

dunno what happened to 577

577. [Removed from published version]

got shy or suddenly realised they were making themselves look like woman hating morons?

520. The New Feminist

Ain't that the truth?

Does anyone have the list of organisations that signed this letter? I can’t see it in the article linked to.

Some of these are marvellous. I love our British creativity and subversive, surreal use of language.

568. Butch Salads
569. Hells Bells FC

And also the construction industry which is subject to Building Regs which require single-sex toilets in the first place, with unisex provision as an optional extra, or where there's insufficient space.

Are "KIN Sustainable Homes" going to build structures that comply with Building Regs?

The rules still apply there. What the rules actually say (you mentioned working so I presume that these are toilets that the employees use?) is that where, for example, there is only one toilet then that is fine as long as it is in a separate room which can be locked from the inside.

If each toilet is in a separate lockable room (with a hand basin) then it doesn't have to be male or female, anybody can use it.

(edited: sorry doble posted)

And thank god for that, but I've never heard any debate about it (in real life, forums or media), while I see plenty of debate about this issue in the UK. Different cultures different attitudes? Probably.

https://www.transsolidarityalliance.com/_files/ugd/bcf2fc_440a2269fc25416aa4f0f89a262b19a7.pdf

well that's a list of tattoo parlours, mobile hairdressers and queer collectives who won't be getting my business thankyousoverymuch

Re above, I have just thought of one bar that has only one toilet. It also happens to be one of the few that is wheelchair accessible so maybe that's the payoff in small venues - Sex-segregated v Accessible provision. If that's the choice, I'd rather go for mixed-sex and accessible but that's one area where I think Europe generally are actually behind the UK.

There's a link in OP's fourth post