Please help: going into school (secondary) to talk about PSHE provision, given Just Like Us are coming in to give a talk on LGBTQ+ relationships

[CyanExpert]

Requesting help from the impressive FWR hive mind. Any advice on how to frame a discussion on PSHE provision at DC secondary school. Just Like Us are coming in to give a talk on LGBTQ+ relationships. I want to lodge a point that KCSIE seems to now say gender questioning (not trans) for kids and isn't LGB sexual orientation different from T identity? What about different perspectives eg LGB Alliance or Sex Matters - why just one point of view? I tend to be very fact driven and am looking for wording advice on how to sound less confrontational and more 'having a discussion'.

An email can be " informal in tone 👀 " as you are learning and "asking" for help.

Plus you are giving the school the chance to think rather than react "on the hop"

So tone by ask questions rather than make statements can help

I understand that the KCSiE section ( ) said /recomends and how is that reflected in the school policy of XYZ?

The KCSiE section ( ) said /recomends so your policy of XYZ is wrong.

You are entitled to ask if the external teaching provider aligned with your values and if the schools can identify where the teaching may diverge to make sure your /your childs belief on the T is respected.

I can't find the relevant page for this screenshot, do you mind sharing it with me? thanks.

I think it's para 44

44. Only appropriately trained professionals should attempt to make a diagnosis
of a mental health problem. Education staff, however, are well placed to observe
children day-to-day and identify those whose behaviour suggests that they may be
experiencing a mental health problem or be at risk of developing one. Schools and
colleges can access a range of advice to help them identify children in need

Quick update for those interested: I spoke to PSHE lead and have followed up with an email (using your very helpful framework, @SingleSexSpacesInSchools - thank you). The conversation was very interesting because it became clear to me how little most people really have thought about this issue - standard 'be kind' type responses - but when I explained the problems of eg confusing LGB and T, what asking for preferred pronouns actually means, sex based rights as defined by the Supreme court - the teacher was understanding, sympathetic to my view and realised that this was a challenging area that required more thinking. She even asked if I'd be prepared to come in to give a talk (!) given I was knowledgeable and had a different perspective to what they've heard in the past. I'm speaking to head of safe guarding next and will push this up through the Governors. I would encourage others to start the conversations with their schools because I think that you may find more engagement/sympathy that you might initially expect. And it has made me feel more empowered and like I'm actually taking steps to address this pervasive ideology, rather than feeling powerless and helpless.

Good luck on your future talk🤞👍

That's great, CyanExpert! I admire you for stepping up, that was brave, and I'm glad you were met with openness.

If you are asked to give a talk, you'll be able to do so with a lot more confidence in yourself, but also in the slightly more open atmosphere around these issues, it hopefully will feel less like going into the lions' den, now you've had a positive interaction with the school.
👏👏👏

That’s incredible @CyanExpert well done!! Anything any of us can do to help with pointers please ask!

Another well done @CyanExpert. Schools should be working in partnership with parents as yours has finally realised. Not pandering to the demands of dubious individuals / organisations seeking to remove the rights of girls and to "queer" schools.

Amazing work @CyanExpert well done and keep going!

If the school is part of a Trust then consider asking to meet with a member of the leadership team there in due course.

The head at our DC's old school has just sent around a letter to parents letting them know that throughout the UK there is increasing concern about the nature of communication received by schools from some parents.

They have decided that they will no longer respond to written or verbal messages that they deem to be unkind or have a negative or offensive tone. People sending communications that the school feels fall into these categories will be sent a letter informing then that the communication will not receive a response (which seems a contradiction).

One of the words used to describe acceptable communication is that is should 'be kind'

Not entirely sure what unacceptable communications the school has been receiving (and the letter does nothing to explain) but I am concerned about the 'be kind' messaging

Good grief. I know that some parents can make life very difficult but a letter like that just pushes all parents into using the formal complaints procedure rather than communicating like adults in the best interests of the child.

this is fantastic to read, well done!

teachers are ridiculously stretched and most will not have encountered opposing views in this area. Workload is more than when I started out over 20 years ago. Partly due to technology and the online world. There is a lot of assumed trust in many outside providers and the DfE guidelines and curriculum has been woeful and conflicting for years. They assume charities are all good and decent set ups.

one of the most shocking aspects of this for me has been the insidious capture of so many institutions. It’s demonstrated to me how vulnerable safeguarding of children is.

Many will need things spelling out and dots joined as no popular published material does this and unions pump the opposite obviously. CAHMS and SWs are often also captured. Many will be reasonable when it’s pointed out and keen to do the right thing

within statutory safeguarding all schools must have a complaints policy in place.

parents must use it and be clear that that is what they’re doing

that should have been communicated in the letter

I absolutely agree. I think there is a general lack of deep thinking on this - we all like to think of ourselves as kind and liberal and extend that to the T in LGBT, without really thinking about what that means. And there are so few providers who give an alternative view. I would love it if we could get Sex Matters or LGB Alliance in to give school talks to give the opposite view. I've contacted them to see if they have any suggestions.

transgender trend and safe schools alliance would also be good here.

TT have many school resources

Helpful, thank you. I'll start with them both.

I actually think someone once told me that TT had worked within schools.

they’ve definitely got articles and resources for teachers to read. The one explaining how girls with autism are affected by this is extremely good and written by a woman with autism. Iirc it would be more aimed at staff knowledge. They sell a couple of books for children on their website; one by Rachel Rooney.

safe schools alliance are more focussed on safeguarding and making sure law and KCSIE is followed. They have fact sheets and advice on their website. The latest kcsie and rshe guidelines now do align more fully with what SSAUK has produced.

I think this can be circumnavigated by fancy verbal footwork [how many metaphors have I mixed in there??] in the letter from the parent.

e.g. laying on with trowel that unkind, negative or offensive communications are indeed a Terrible Thing, and it is in the most positive spirit that this issue is being brought up, so that the school community can move forward in the spirit of openness and inclusivity that we all value so deeply blah blah blah...

OK so it's insincere and fawning, but it puts it up to the school to show how the letter contravenes their standards of 'niceness'.

To be fair to schools, given the amount of offensive and angry stuff that gets thrown around on SM all the time, and the threats of violence that public figures are subjected to, I can well imagine that school staff get some nasty stuff sent to them, and they are entitled to protect themselves from that.

But we all know what can hide behind #bekind...

This is an important issue and I'm not being critical of any suggestions. More reflecting on the mountain there is to climb in education.

We know that tranactivists made a beeline for children and schools from the outset. Men with a fetish literally standing in front of groups of children talking about themselves. That evolved into Stonewall and other trans organisations / individuals self identifying as "experts" and flooding schools with dodgy training and gaslighting education in all things trans.

I'd suggest that countering this will remain a challenge until schools are reminded that their prime responsibility is to centre children, their well being and safety and to remain politically neutral. Schools getting involved in socially transitioning children and promoting transgenderism at children too young to navigate the complex sexual, personal and mental health issues involved, have done terrible harm.

Schools desperately need the final guidelines that the government have been dithering about for so long. We know that these organisations / transactivists embedded in the civil service & politics won't give up their ability to gaslight children willingly, but the government must bite this bullet.

Until they do and adults in schools get a clear message about the limitations of their role in selling trans issues to children, they'll just make the lives of responsible adults addressing this a misery.

Yes you are absolutely right @MrsOvertonsWindow

I can't agree more, @MrsOvertonsWindow . You are absolutely dead right. I think a lot of them have sleep-walked into this without really realising what they are supporting. Not that this is an excuse, of course. More an observation.

Just catching up on this thread.

Well done OP for getting this addressed by the school 👏👏👏

In my experience, most people I've spoken to at the school have sleep-walked into this without really realising what they are supporting.

However, I've also hit what could possibly best be described as a layer of activism at the senior leadership and senior safeguarding leadership level. It sounds like that hasn't been your experience, which is great!

I'm going back in tomorrow for another discussion with leads on PSHE and safeguarding (armed with more facts and points gleaned from these threads). Will report back as this progresses. I intend to keep going 'up the chain of command'.

Hope it goes well.

I went to a school open evening yesterday. It was an all girls school but they had a huge noticeboard about DEI full of posters from Just Like Us. There were pictures and quotes from Laverne Cox, Alok Menon etc. I found it quite jarring and confronting, and it raised questions for me as to what an all girls school was trying to suggest or support?

It's off my list for dd anyway.

If you can face it, would you consider sending an email to the admissions dept of the school, saying exactly this point? You don't even need to elaborate any further. The more of us that can gently push back, the better. (I fully appreciate this may not be possible; I just speak for myself that I've felt better now I'm actually talking to the school about this and feeling like I might, in some tiny way, be making a difference).