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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gay men and surrogacy - the new “be kind”?

714 replies

Tootingbec · 06/09/2025 21:27

Just seen a LinkedIn post from a gay man who is writing a book about the surrogacy “journey” he and his husband went through. Cue gushing comments about how amazing this is…..

It has really upset me. The sheer fucking privilege of gay men to buy babies and then be lauded and praised for it like they were super heroes. And untouchable to criticism due to blinkered “be kind” beliefs about the poor gay men who just want a family like heterosexual men.

Where do people think these babies come from? Do you think people delude themselves that all these gay men just have kind, altruistic female friends who happily have a baby for them? As opposed to exploiting vulnerable and desperate women in India, Mexico and the like.

I feel so angry - women are just fucked over and abused time and time again by men and it is all dressed up as progressive when it is the exact opposite.

When I was a younger women I loved having gay men in my social circle. They seemed like “nicer” more lovely men than most straight men. Now I realise that underneath it all they just the same sexist, privileged tossers as many straight men are. They want a baby? No problem - buy one! They want to invade women’s spaces? No problem - just reinvent yourself as “the most vulnerable in society”!

It’s like the scales have fallen from my eyes.

OP posts:
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OrangePieHigh · 10/09/2025 16:00

CurlewKate · 10/09/2025 14:30

Interestingly, one of the many crimes the Duchess of Sussex allegedly committed was to have her children by surrogate. Unforgivable, apparently. Tom Daly? Hero Father of the Soviet Union. As usual, things are different for men.

Not that interesting that crazies on X are alleging Meghan Markle didn't give birth.

Tom Daley however, has come under much scrutiny. Odd you compare the two.

Maddy70 · 10/09/2025 16:06

Arran2024 · 10/09/2025 14:35

That anecdote is hardly representative of the industry. And what is the legal status of the child, whose mother gave him away for a few free lunches?

I take your point as it's something I wouldn't consider myself but it suits them, the law is quite clear you cannot buy a baby , you can cover expenses. Would you feel the same if it was their sister having the baby for them? I have mixed feelings about it all too but I see it all working out well in this situation

TheJoyOfWriting · 10/09/2025 16:06

CurlewKate · 10/09/2025 15:02

Gay couples can foster or adopt. So can heterosexual couples who cannot have children. Having a child is not a right. Some people can-some people can’t-regardless of sex or sexuality.

Yep, foster, adopt ot a cooarent w straight or lesbian female friend. There ARE other options, much better ones.

Arran2024 · 10/09/2025 16:35

Maddy70 · 10/09/2025 16:06

I take your point as it's something I wouldn't consider myself but it suits them, the law is quite clear you cannot buy a baby , you can cover expenses. Would you feel the same if it was their sister having the baby for them? I have mixed feelings about it all too but I see it all working out well in this situation

The thing is, the sister having a baby is what surrogacy was originally approved for - an act of generosity from one woman to another. But it's not what surrogacy is these days and if we talk about about these sisterhood surrogacies, we are missing the reality of what is going on.

In fact, there are two gay influencers in America who used the sister of one of them. Turns out she works for them! I wonder how easy it would have been for her to say no.

MarvellousMonsters · 10/09/2025 18:27

Vubui · 09/09/2025 21:37

PARENTING requires dedication, sacrifice and most importantly intent.

Not the same, and that's the point. That's a 'not all men' vibe.

I wasn't making any comment on whether surrogate parents should be screened or not. I thought the only allowed idea was that surrogate parents shouldn't exist at all so screening is irrelevant, surely? (Did you not get the memo?)

“Did you get the memo?”

”sit down before you hurt yourself”

WTF are you on about. Stop trying to do mic drops. You seem to be wilfully misunderstanding clearly made points so I’m not going to bother engaging anymore.

Enough4me · 10/09/2025 18:44

Completely agree OP. Imagine being an adult knowing you were purchased and you can't disagree with surrogacy or search for your mother as you are constantly walking around the eggshells of "be kind".
The high stress of trying to meet the very needs of these men to be the perfect child to fit a created family - I can see future Long Lost episodes where they find other family and feel free to be themselves.

Vubui · 10/09/2025 19:33

MarvellousMonsters · 10/09/2025 18:27

“Did you get the memo?”

”sit down before you hurt yourself”

WTF are you on about. Stop trying to do mic drops. You seem to be wilfully misunderstanding clearly made points so I’m not going to bother engaging anymore.

You have been challenged and have now pronounced 'oh I'm just not going to respond anymore'? How very predictable.

Off you flounce.

NotBadConsidering · 10/09/2025 20:49

Maddy70 · 10/09/2025 16:06

I take your point as it's something I wouldn't consider myself but it suits them, the law is quite clear you cannot buy a baby , you can cover expenses. Would you feel the same if it was their sister having the baby for them? I have mixed feelings about it all too but I see it all working out well in this situation

But “expenses” is just buying a baby, isn’t it?

I go to a furniture shop and see a dining table. I ask how much it is. I am told that the raw wood cost £500 and the work hours to make it added up to £500 so the table can by mine for £1000. Am I buying the table or just covering “expenses”?

NorthernBogbean · 10/09/2025 21:18

I've never thought surrogacy was a good thing. Back in 1985 it seemed clear that Kim Cotton was advocating for something which was essentially selfish and could not be regulated, despite her presentation of it as an essential good for infertile couples.

Surrogacy is always selfish in that the wants of adults are considered before the needs of children. As pp have pointed out, surrogacy by its nature inflicts separation trauma on a newborn - this alone is an unjustifiable result of fulfilling adult wants.

Surrogacy is, essentially, the commisioning of a child by people with the resources to do so. It differs from adoption - which has its own dark side historically - in that it's a transaction designed to actually bring an infant into being, involving the loss of the natural mother.

Adults who want children to themselves, to be treated legally as their own and don't want that to be a compromise will justify surrogacy and will minimise the potential harms to the children delivered by surrogacy, from attachment problems to identity struggles and this is before scenarios such as rejection of disabled infants, parental rights disputes and other breakdowns of relationships and agreements are considered.

Those who think surrogacy is not essentially commercialised and that exploitation of poor women can be guarded against are living in a dreamworld. 'Expenses' are just payment by another name to 'comply' with local laws. People with resources will always be able to circumvent barriers to commercialisation while surrogacy is legalised, often by shopping internationally. The potential for surrogacy to be further commercialised is huge.

No-one has a right to have children. It's an unfairness of human life that some people can and some can't. Yes it will feel unfair to infertile couples that fertility treatments work well for some, or that feckless parents can have kids, yes it will feel unfair to gay men that lesbian couples can have babies by informal donor. It is 'unfair', and many, many aspects of life are. The emotional arguments for surrogacy are always expressed in terms of what the commissioning parents want, but that's not an argument if you consider surrogacy to be wrong, which I do.

It's not an argument in favour of surrogacy to point out that crappy people have babies naturally - society mitigates against that as best it can but people can't be prevented from having their own children outside of a nightmare dystopia.

There are a number of interested parties in the normalisation of surrogacy. People taking advantage of surrogates are likely to be well-resourced straight couples but high-profile male couples have certainly been in the news as part of a move towards acceptance - they are inevitably more visible because they have obviously needed surrogates. None of these adults have a right to have children by whatever means necessary.

GreenFairy93 · 10/09/2025 22:45

Arran2024 · 10/09/2025 13:40

When ivf was first introduced and then surrogacy became legal, we were given all sorts of reassurances about how it would be used. Over time the boundaries have shifted considerably and we now have gay and single men buying babies on no more than a whim.

Gay men often recruit two surrogates at once so they can each have a biological child. So these children are not related unless they used the same egg donor, are probably a few weeks or months apart in age, each living in a household with an unrelated male (which is the biggest danger for children).

But anyway, surrogacy was always sold to us as an act of sisterhood for a woman who could not conceive. In this respect her husband is not the issue - surrogacy is a way of one woman helping another. Commercial surrogacy is not allowed in the UK.

Most women who use surrogates do so after exhaustive tests, miscarriages, failed IVF etc. They have gone on a journey. Very few are just contacting an agency from scratch.

Men on the other hand won't have come to it from fertility issues and it's rarely an act of altruism. It's a commercial transaction.

And they are the ones posting about it on social media. Most hetro couples don't because they want to blend in down the line. So you rarely see posts from them.

Edited

Wow. You call gay men having children a risk to the child because they are living with an "unrelated male"!?

That's pure homophobia.

TempestTost · 10/09/2025 23:48

Livpool · 10/09/2025 11:44

Same as infertile heterosexual couples then?

I don’t agree with surrogacy but i don’t understand your diatribe against gay men

The issue is not really the men themselves.

It's that one of the arguments used now to say we must allow surrogacy is that it is homophobic not to allow it, or gay men can't have children.

There are examples of people saying just that in this thread.

A lot of people are scared to death to be accused of any kind of thing labelled as a phobia or ism, they reflexively agree to avoid even being confronted with such an accusation.

So claiming that it is homophobic to be against surrogacy is a way to shut down people's thinking on the issue.

TempestTost · 10/09/2025 23:49

GreenFairy93 · 10/09/2025 22:45

Wow. You call gay men having children a risk to the child because they are living with an "unrelated male"!?

That's pure homophobia.

How is it homophobia, it's nothing to do with them being gay.

PlanetJanette · 11/09/2025 01:06

TempestTost · 10/09/2025 23:49

How is it homophobia, it's nothing to do with them being gay.

Two men living together and raising a child together is nothing to do with them being gay?

Also FYI a child’s legal parent is not ‘unrelated’.

TheJoyOfWriting · 11/09/2025 02:15

TempestTost · 10/09/2025 23:49

How is it homophobia, it's nothing to do with them being gay.

Tbf they probably would be related to one of them.

Otoh ofc it's not homophobic, there's the same issue w couples who use sperm donors, single male adopters, too.

ThatBlackCat · 11/09/2025 02:40

GreenFairy93 · 10/09/2025 22:45

Wow. You call gay men having children a risk to the child because they are living with an "unrelated male"!?

That's pure homophobia.

No, it is malephobia. That the male is gay is irrelevant.

Many of you cannot see the forest for the trees, you're that blinkered, and genuinely cannot see past sexual orientation.

CurlewKate · 11/09/2025 03:03

I’m not homophobic or “malephobic” (wtf?) I am, if anything surrogacyphobic.

nutmeg7 · 11/09/2025 07:55

GreenFairy93 · 10/09/2025 22:45

Wow. You call gay men having children a risk to the child because they are living with an "unrelated male"!?

That's pure homophobia.

No, it’s pointing out that the statistics show that the highest risk to a child comes from an unrelated male living in the household.

PlanetJanette · 11/09/2025 08:52

nutmeg7 · 11/09/2025 07:55

No, it’s pointing out that the statistics show that the highest risk to a child comes from an unrelated male living in the household.

I’m sure posters will be able to point to the many posts that highlight the dangers of children conceived using donor sperm who live with ‘unrelated’ males. No? Just the gay ones?

And once more for those at the back - not being a child’s biological parent does not make someone ‘unrelated’. I am my son’s mum regardless of who gave birth to him. I am not an ‘unrelated female’.

CurlewKate · 11/09/2025 08:59

nutmeg7 · 11/09/2025 07:55

No, it’s pointing out that the statistics show that the highest risk to a child comes from an unrelated male living in the household.

So you think only single women or women in same sex relationships should be allowed to adopt or have babies with donor sperm?

Arran2024 · 11/09/2025 09:00

GreenFairy93 · 10/09/2025 22:45

Wow. You call gay men having children a risk to the child because they are living with an "unrelated male"!?

That's pure homophobia.

It is always the case that living with an unrelated male is a potential danger to children. It doesn't matter if the unrelated male is gay or not. It doesn't change the statistics.

Gay adopters are heavily assessed, like all adopters. But with surrogacy men can go and obtain children Without any assessment.

In most surrogacy, the commissioning father is the bio father. But in the case of gay fathers with two children, they will probably have fathered one child each, meaning that they are each parenting a non bio child. Or if they have one child, only one is the bio father.

It is not being homophobic to point this out.

Arran2024 · 11/09/2025 09:04

CurlewKate · 11/09/2025 08:59

So you think only single women or women in same sex relationships should be allowed to adopt or have babies with donor sperm?

Living with a non related woman is not the risk. It is non related men who are the risk.

CurlewKate · 11/09/2025 09:42

Arran2024 · 11/09/2025 09:04

Living with a non related woman is not the risk. It is non related men who are the risk.

Yes. So as I said-perhaps only women should be allowed to adopt, foster or have babies with donor sperm.

TempestTost · 11/09/2025 10:49

CurlewKate · 11/09/2025 09:42

Yes. So as I said-perhaps only women should be allowed to adopt, foster or have babies with donor sperm.

I mean, this is one of the reasons families looking to adopt are looked at very closely. Which mitigates the issue fairly significantly I'd think.

The fact is that the statistic on the danger of unrelated men is overwhelmingly composed of children living with their biological mother who has a differernt partner from when the child was conceived. Which obviously involves no outside vetting.

Donor gametes are a whole differernt ballpark to adoption and fostering though for many of the same reasons surrogacy is. The rights of the child apply in a lot of the same ways.

GreenFairy93 · 11/09/2025 11:31

Good grief.

Would you all say it is a risk to a child to be adopted by a heterosexual couple, or for a heterosexual couple to use a sperm donor because the man is infertile!? Of course not! You wouldn't be calling the male in the relationship and "unrelated male" either, you would be calling him the child's father.

So to only cite this risk for a gay couple is homophobic.

For the poster who raised step fathers being the highest risk to children - adoptive fathers and fathers of donor conceived children are not step dads, they are actual fathers. There is a bug difference in choosing to have a child of your own and acquiring one through marriage that wasn't your choice to have.

As @PlanetJanette says, my daughter was conceived with a donor egg due to severe endometriosis, I still carried and gave birth to her and anyone calling me an unrelated female and not her mum would get short shrift.