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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Struggling with my political allegiance now and it's really bothering me

267 replies

Appalonia · 04/09/2025 22:46

Since the eighties, I have been a leftie, raised money for the Miners ' strike, was in the SWP for a while in the 90s, lifelong Guardian reader, worked for charities for most of my career. However, I'm so disillusioned with what the left has become now. It started as for many of us with the trans issue, seeing formally trusted and respected institutions like the BBC, the Guardian, C4 etc either ignore, or blatantly skew the issues, the only place I could read the truth about what was happening was on ' right wing' media outlets that I would have dismissed outright previously.

Since it was only right wing outlets or posters that were talking about this, pp like Douglas Murray, Jordan Peterson, The Spectator etc, I feel like I've been exposed to right wing views that I now feel more more aligned to than left wing commentators like Owen Jones, Mark Steel, most comedians etc.

I now listen to Trigggernometry, Free Speech Nation The Lotus Eaters, and I'm starting to feel more aligned to them on other issues now, like free speech, immigration etc.

So, I'm thinking about the demonstration for free speech in London on 13 September in London and part of me really wants to go because I think it's really important and what's happened with the trans debate and how it's been reported in the press and how so many gender critical pp have been silenced. And it's not just about GC views, it's about free speech in general. But the people who are organising this, is really putting me off. I want to go and stand up for what I believe in but at the same time, this demo is being characterised as a ' far right' demonstration, and I don't want to be associated with that. In fact, years ago, I would have been on the other side, demonstrating against fascists.

I just can't disentangle it all in my mind, I believe in free speech and I do believe it's under threat in the UK, but at the same time I don't want to be associated with pp like Tommy Robinson. But even saying that, just watching his interview on Triggernometry was eye opening. Can anyone relate to this? I just feel so conflicted right now.

Sorry, I don't feel I've expressed myself very well, there's so much more th an this. I just can't square my identity of myself of a life long socialist with how much I disagree with so much of what the left stands for now, that I just don't agree with.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
PurpleChrayn · 05/09/2025 07:33

I’m the same. 🤷🏼‍♀️

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 07:39

Shedmistress · 05/09/2025 07:31

I'm don't want to make it all about the boogy man.

Here's a gazillion posts about the boogy man to prove my point.

Don't be ridiculous. I have repeatedly stated that I agree w OP listening to the podcasts she mentioned and I agree that immigration needs to be dealt with. I don't disagree with Robinson's campaigns. I disagree with his OTHER abhorrent actions

. I've seen a lot of posts on MN generally, not FWR specifically, which seem to see him as positive, with no mention of his crimes. Even fromorbit, who I was initially replying to, called him 'dodgy' only and focused on him hogging attention without doing much, which is an issue, but certainly not the worst one w him.

I definitely think OP is right to question narratives as she has done, but her concerns about Robinson are certainly validated by the evidence, and I think it's important for people to be aware of all he has done.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 07:41

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 05/09/2025 07:32

Triggernometry is so far from the right let alone any far right positions it's laughable. Do not feel bad for watching them, frankly they're incredible at allowing people to state their views and then poking massive holes in them

Free Speech - is not a right issue, not in the slightest. It used to be a left issue right up until they started having ideas that did not stand up to debate, and THEN they started to smear free speech as a far right issue.

I'm a (was) "never kiss a tory" type. I remember Thatcher, strikes, I'm up for minimum wages, progressive taxation, nationalised public services. What I am not up for is terrorist appeasement, men is dresses, queer theory, no debate.

It is absolute insanity that the people of the world are expected to fit into exactly two camps, where every topic has two polar opposite opinions, and you need to agree with all of them in a given bucket or you are thrown out. The left is the worst couplet for this.

It's not you. You did not leave the left. The left left you.

Definitely this. The only thing I would say is that Kisin does seem to have some quite conservative views on women's roles from what I've read of his views on Substack. I read a lot of stuff there though- maybe I'm confusing him with someone else...

Shortshriftandlethal · 05/09/2025 07:41

SionnachRuadh · 05/09/2025 00:08

I think one important thing is not to feel you've left one tribe and have to rush to join another tribe. Read a lot, listen a lot, expose yourself to different viewpoints.

I have a TRA friend who's a lawyer (not Jolyon) and he was absolutely shocked by the Supreme Court judgment. I believe he'd told his trans friends it was an easy win for their side.

The interesting thing is that, though he knows some prominent GC feminists and used to be friendly with them, he doesn't know their arguments and isn't interested in hearing them. His attitude is very much "they're anti-trans and anti self-ID, and that's all I need to know."

I want to say to him, Helen Joyce does two or three long-form podcast interviews in an average week. Even if you won't read her book, take an hour and listen to her, you don't have to agree with anything she says, but maybe then you wouldn't be blindsided every time your side loses a court case.

But he won't do that. It's really easy on the left to live in an information bubble. In fact people in that world will go out of their way to avoid viewpoints that the tribe doesn't approve of. It's as if they would be opening themselves up to sinful thoughts by listening to Helen Joyce.

All I'd say is don't jump into another bubble. Listen to a wide range and figure out where you stand, and you don't have to feel guilty about not being tribal.

Great Post!

Don't feel you have to join another tribe.......become a bit more free floating and open to that which resonates with you and makes sense to you. You don't have to nail your colours to any mast. Everything is so polarised right now - and neither 'side' owns the whole truth, or the whole picture.

Beachwalksinwinter · 05/09/2025 07:48

I don't disagree with Tommy Robinsons campaigns...just a thread to push the alternative (dangerous view). However OP if you are old enough to have 'raised money for the miners strike' I admire your continued political energy. I'm a similar age and really don't have the enthusiasm anymore.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 07:48

Shedmistress · 05/09/2025 07:28

We know by now that the media do hatchet jobs on anyone that is going against the approved narrative so I'd not be worried about reports about people, judge them on what you have witnessed not someone's spin on it. And oh my god can we stop citing Wikipedia as proof of anything?

Anyway, in my opinion, you should view just as much from your natural opposite side as from your side, and make your own mind up about what you believe.

On the right/left thing, what even do these words mean any more?

I know perfectly well that Wikipedia itself is not reliable. But all Robinson's crimes have citations to news articles.

It his beyond debate that he has a lot of ccriminal convictions for various misdeeds. You could argue they are all unfair amd he was not guilty - is that what you believe.....?

And are you arguing that the Lizzie Dearden allegations just a smear? What about the way he treated that interracial family - also a smear?

I am willing to believe that SOME of Robinson's alleged misdeeds may be smears, but I think there comes a point and volume of accusations where no smoke without fire is more likely to be the case. It's a bit like Trump and Weinstein : some could well be smears or jumping on the bandwagon, but there comes a point where on balance it seems very unlikely that every accusation is a smear

fromorbit · 05/09/2025 07:53

The hope I have right now is that the old censorship about saying things are coming down.

There is serious discussion going on about major issues. Take a look at the thread about Your party and their division over trans vs Muslim. Now while it is easy to see this as example of classic leftist dysfunction but it is a debate that would have been smoothed over a few years ago. It is possible that out of this conflict a new truth may emerge. Or it may not. The point is it is happening.

Yes a lot of immigrants have different values to the UK. The left wanted to pretend there was no conflict. This was racist bilge pretending everyone in the world was some kind of European liberal. Actually other cultures do exist they are different and they do conflict with each other. This does cause problems especially for women and gay people. Now we can say this.

The question is can any of our political parties rise to deal with the crisis we are facing. Labour are trying, but are floundering. Reform talk big, but do they have any practical ability to solve anything? All of them have huge issues.

The UK economy has systematic issues and I am not sure anyone knows how to fix it.

TheaBrandt1 · 05/09/2025 07:54

My issue is my lovely family are quite binary “left good /right bad” so look slightly queasy if I question that narrative in any way. So glad to see others feel like I do. Agree it’s just not simple anymore.

Having two teen girls my view is that I centre teenage girls. Any political ideology that harms them I will reject. Doesn’t leave much.

I vote Lib Dem as they are in power here but I detest their stance on trans issues which imo is harmful for girls.

deadpan · 05/09/2025 07:55

I'd be very careful and think long and hard about going to an event associated with Stephen Yaxley Lennon. He's a thug and only "cares" about the migration of brown or black people.
I can see where you're coming from, but the polarisation is exaggerated by media both social and non. For newspapers it brings them revenue, and they've never been known for their calmness. In social media it's algorithms.
I have a broader viewing habit now too, but it doesn't mean I'm not still a lefty. You can disagree with some things and agree with others on a different side of the political spectrum, but still hold your core values.
I hate Nigel farage, but agree with him that HS2 should never have been started. We come at it from completely different angles and I don't support him.

User37482 · 05/09/2025 07:56

I doubt peoples opinions fall easily into clearly defined camps, it’s why the left has the communists, blue labour, red labour, erm Corbyn. The “right” is similar from one nation tories, old fashioned liberals, reform. On both sides there are vast differences in beliefs about immigration, state spending, individual liberties etc etc.

I’ve always been a centrist and floating voter so I’ve never personally identified with any particular tribe. I think the problem comes when the way your vote forms a part of your self perceived identity.

I think we have dropped the idea of politics being about debating whats the best idea and what works with feeling and identity. It means for a long time ideas would be automatically sneered at as stupid and bigoted because it’s easier than debating the substance. I see this as a tactic of the left. Watching anyone trying to take a GC position on a debate panel was painful for a long time because they were often cast as basically stupid and evil, motivated by bigotry and ignorance.

Shedmistress · 05/09/2025 07:57

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 07:48

I know perfectly well that Wikipedia itself is not reliable. But all Robinson's crimes have citations to news articles.

It his beyond debate that he has a lot of ccriminal convictions for various misdeeds. You could argue they are all unfair amd he was not guilty - is that what you believe.....?

And are you arguing that the Lizzie Dearden allegations just a smear? What about the way he treated that interracial family - also a smear?

I am willing to believe that SOME of Robinson's alleged misdeeds may be smears, but I think there comes a point and volume of accusations where no smoke without fire is more likely to be the case. It's a bit like Trump and Weinstein : some could well be smears or jumping on the bandwagon, but there comes a point where on balance it seems very unlikely that every accusation is a smear

This is my last word on Tommy. Apart from all the other words I will continue to type...

TheaBrandt1 · 05/09/2025 07:57

I’m not a massive fan of all his books but the concept in How to stop Time by Matt Haig blew my mind. He pointed out that everything is cyclical. Humans repeat the same patterns of authoritarianism / peace / persecution/ war over the generations. What’s incredible is that humans don’t actually learn from our own history.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/09/2025 08:01

Howseitgoin · 04/09/2025 23:21

Free speech absolutism is very much an American cultural value. I'm Australian & like the British, Canadians & other countries we recognise there's a line where free speech becomes counterproductive to social cohesion & human rights hence our hate speech laws that Americans don't have because of their first Amendment right to free speech.

I suspect what you are seeing with British institutions as with many globally as necessity not to conflict with those & anti discrimination laws. Whilst you might feel they are cowering to 'ideology' you don't agree with, the fact is trans people are protected groups.

Whilst free speech absolutists argue if there's no absolute free speech, the 'market place of ideas' is restricted, the question is are those idea being restricted of any value to the flourishing if civil society as free speech intended? Are those ideas misrepresentations that when combined with a mob mentality restrict the freedoms & by extension the free speech/expressions of others as John Stuart Mill the god father of free speech warned?

It's interesting you mention Douglas Murray & his 'selective' free speech. IE any criticism of Israeli government policy = antisemitism+Hamas allegiance & should be restricted. I think you will find many of these free speech 'champions' aren't so loyal to their principles & were only in it for the lucrative business model it has become via manufactured oversimplification of issues that have radicalised many.

Anyhow, here's historical fruits of where free speech absolutism ends.
Rant over.
https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

This would be all very well if women enjoyed equal protection against hate speech (not to mention credible threats of harm) by trans activists.

So why don't we?

What is it about us boring female people that makes us less important and less worthy of protection than male people with gender identities?

User37482 · 05/09/2025 08:01

fromorbit · 05/09/2025 07:53

The hope I have right now is that the old censorship about saying things are coming down.

There is serious discussion going on about major issues. Take a look at the thread about Your party and their division over trans vs Muslim. Now while it is easy to see this as example of classic leftist dysfunction but it is a debate that would have been smoothed over a few years ago. It is possible that out of this conflict a new truth may emerge. Or it may not. The point is it is happening.

Yes a lot of immigrants have different values to the UK. The left wanted to pretend there was no conflict. This was racist bilge pretending everyone in the world was some kind of European liberal. Actually other cultures do exist they are different and they do conflict with each other. This does cause problems especially for women and gay people. Now we can say this.

The question is can any of our political parties rise to deal with the crisis we are facing. Labour are trying, but are floundering. Reform talk big, but do they have any practical ability to solve anything? All of them have huge issues.

The UK economy has systematic issues and I am not sure anyone knows how to fix it.

As an ethnic minority I would agree with the point that people carry culture with them. This can be positive or negative, some groups excel in the UK specifically because of cultural values, some flail because of their cultural values. This should not be controversial. I once pointed out to a family member that at one point I moved to a country where homosexuality was illegal, I however did not change my views on homosexuality at all just by virtue of physically being in said country.

I wouldn’t expect someone moving to the UK would suddenly become in favour of womens equality, freedom of speech (see other thread debating a morroccon activist arrested for wearing an “allah is a lesbian” t-shirt.) it’s self delusion.

AliasGrace47 · 05/09/2025 08:04

Shedmistress · 05/09/2025 07:57

This is my last word on Tommy. Apart from all the other words I will continue to type...

Why are you so averse to criticism of him?

That's the whole point of open debate, like it or not. You can't just shut down criticism of Tommy bc you like him.

SaidAHipHopTheHippieToTheHippie · 05/09/2025 08:04

Don’t confuse the two things. You can agree with one thing the right does, it doesn’t mean you should vote for them.

These racists flag flyers are probably GC too, if they were educated enough to understand the term. But their flags are not about the safety of women and girls.

The Tory stance on Trans issues is not about feminism!

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2025 08:05

Crime and poverty always go hand in hand.

Immigrants are always going to be a feature of that, because many seek to come to the UK for better economic opportunities and prospects.

This by default implies that their background prior to that is one where they are economically less well off.

So they start at the bottom of British society with the ambition and intention of moving up. This means they are in more difficult areas and are exposed to more social problems. There are often more limited legitimate opportunities than they envisaged and thus may be tempted by criminal opportunies or even necessity (just like those who have long established backgrounds in that same community).

Comparisons along race / immigration status lines often miss this problem. Comparing white affluence stable citizens with British ancestry to immigrants from none Western countries isn't a fair comparison. Comparing with white citizens of the same economic status is much more appropriate - and when you do that, you actually get a very different picture. It's a picture of political neglect of these communities and less access to opportunities compared to recent migrants. It's an economic problem primarily which are amplified by cultural differences, not caused by cultural differences.

This creates tension within an established community who feel like they are marginalised or shut out. If you have large numbers of people who can't speak English then even as the most welcoming person ever this can leave to difficulties in communication and yes perhaps a sense of social isolation and sense of second classness.

There has been a significant reduction in social mobility - again 2008 was a significant turning point in this. The removal of free university education was a consequence of government finances being squeezed post crash. This reduction of social mobility has caused resentment and frustration. Little to no investment in areas of low employment opportunities whilst then putting more competition for what jobs and housing are available is a total recipe for disaster for anyone with half a brain cell. Seeing money poor into schemes and support for migrants - however legitimate or fair their reasons are for coming to the UK - is going to lead to resentment. It's inevitable because human nature and sense of justice/fairness. You actually have to ask the question, why did no one consider this seriously rather than blaming any group involved at ground level. There's a total political void in thinking at this level. Anyone surprised it's manifesting as racism at times, needs to take a long hard look at what's happening at ground level..

It's the lefts political blind spot. Everyone has political blind spots, but the left were warned and told about it for decades but didn't take it seriously because it wasn't said by people with great educations and who are able to articulate the point well.

We've fallen into the fallacy of believing that if people are well spoken and educated they must be right but people who are lacking in this are stupid and ignorant and should be ignored.

That's not how democracies work and this arrogance in refusing to listen on a range of quite disparate and totally unrelated subjects has led to an era of grievance.

Dominic Cummings understood it. His strategy for the Official Vote Leave campaign was to not promise anything but instead hone in on these grievances and acknowledge them (this is why the leave promises were wishy washy, unconnected, sometimes contradictory and generally bollocks.) He knew that the electorate would take to the bits that connected with them and their lived experience and ignore everything else as just background noise. Arguably Farages unofficial leave campaign was actually a hindrance to this strategy because it had an image problem that drove off quite a lot of softer disillusioned who didn't like the racism.

Since then, the Conservatives were unable to move forward with Brexit promises which promised both nothing and the earth at the same time. In letting the electorate form individual concepts of what Brexit should look like in their own heads Cummings created millions of visions of Brexit but no unifying vision of Brexit which had widespread public consensus. It doomed the Conservatives to oblivion in the long run.

I think Labour recognised this danger to an extent but in taking over from the Tories and the shit show they left behind they are on a hiding to nothing especially post COVID.

Meanwhile Farage has realised how well Cummings strategy of focusing on disillusionment worked in gathering votes. And after years of things getting worse and being offered no other solution even moderates are turning to him because they've been failed and not acknowledged in their legitimate concerns. Instead they've been told to suck it up or worse told they are wrong and bigoted rather than politicians looking at the underlying issues.

As I say, Reform do not have the answers. When you see any reform candidate grilled on anything much at all they generally don't have many answers and often reveal pretty poor knowledge of the subject (see Farage on gender identity issues and where the law currently is. He couldn't identify the SC ruling and he couldn't identify the issue over medical transition not being enforceable as a prerequisite to certain rights under gender reassignment.)

Put them in power and it's going to be a car crash because they will clash with the law. Their only option will be a massive dismantling of political accountability to the public (basically public recourse through the courts) but it looks likely they will have the majority to be able to do this.

It will be a trainwreck and may end up with social unrest because it will increase rather than decrease disillusionment and levels of poverty and crime will increase.

I don't see any way around this inevitably.

As it stands if you are above a certain financial point now, you'll be ok. Be below a certain watershed and you will be utterly utterly fucked. A huge number of those who are planning to vote for Reform are below this watershed point.

The idea that a man who couldn't be fucked to turn up to his job in Brussels is suddenly going to have a personality transplant and start working his arse off running the country is the very definition of insanity itself. Yet unfortunately far too many people are buying into it.

Farage is in it for a get rich quick grift which will benefit him long term. Not to improve the country.

I am not always right with my political predictions but my track record is very good.

It scares the living bejesus out of me and I was saying prior to Mays deal being presented to the commons, that if people didn't recognise the dangers of being unable to deliver the undeliverable Farage would get in. I was worried then not about the next election but the one after that (May and Johnson decided to throw spanners in the works on how many elections it's actually turned out to be - my concern was really that we'd kick out the Tories, Labour would inherit a shit show and also fuck it up and we'd be left with a political void that Farage would capitalise on - I just got the number of PMs and elections wrong).

And here we are. Starring into the void.

It's shit. But predictable.

Slimtoddy · 05/09/2025 08:08

You can agree with someone on one thing but not agree with their wider views. You don't have to put yourself in a box of left or right.

Where do you stand on economic policies? Universal Basic income, minimum wage, tax policies - things like that.

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2025 08:12

Slimtoddy · 05/09/2025 08:08

You can agree with someone on one thing but not agree with their wider views. You don't have to put yourself in a box of left or right.

Where do you stand on economic policies? Universal Basic income, minimum wage, tax policies - things like that.

Absolutely.

I agree there is a problem with how migration is being handled. I don't believe migration is necessarily a problem.

I agree there is a problem with free speech. I disagree that this means you are allowed to say absolutely anything (harassment and threats of violence are unlawful and restrict freedom of speech rather than being representative of freedom of speech).

DryAndBalmy · 05/09/2025 08:12

‘Far right’ is a term used by the left to tinge and dismiss and ‘other’ any person/ viewpoint/ initiative that doesn’t fit their own agenda.

They also say ‘spreading hate’ about anything that doesn’t align with their own diktat.

It’s an attempt to manipulate people. By blanketing a belief, eg that a man in a dress is still a man, with ‘FAR RIGHT’ and ‘SPREADING HATE’ it intimidates people into keeping quiet. Into complying with their own agenda.

See, also, teenage boys who call a girl ‘boring’ or ‘frigid’ if she won’t sleep with him. Another example of trying to manipulate and control.

Think what you think. Your views are important. Politicians care about one thing - votes/ getting re-elected.

ArabellaScott · 05/09/2025 08:15

DryAndBalmy · 05/09/2025 08:12

‘Far right’ is a term used by the left to tinge and dismiss and ‘other’ any person/ viewpoint/ initiative that doesn’t fit their own agenda.

They also say ‘spreading hate’ about anything that doesn’t align with their own diktat.

It’s an attempt to manipulate people. By blanketing a belief, eg that a man in a dress is still a man, with ‘FAR RIGHT’ and ‘SPREADING HATE’ it intimidates people into keeping quiet. Into complying with their own agenda.

See, also, teenage boys who call a girl ‘boring’ or ‘frigid’ if she won’t sleep with him. Another example of trying to manipulate and control.

Think what you think. Your views are important. Politicians care about one thing - votes/ getting re-elected.

Politicians care about several things, including lobbyists, their own post politics futures, cachet, party membership, factions, etc.

SquirrelSoShiny · 05/09/2025 08:20

I am furious at 'the left' in Britain, USA, Australia and various European democracies. They completely abandoned their original core values - bringing equal opportunity for humans to thrive economically. Instead they became defenders of fashionable niche issues. The media and arts were absolutely complicit. The net effect is a terrifying push towards hard right politics.

I've been saying for years that I genuinely believe gender ideology was pushed by the right to bring about a backlash against liberal values. The left are to blame for running into the trap. Men cannot become women. Women cannot become men. 'Non-binary' is an imaginary concept.

The left told us we were bad humans for believing material reality. No wonder any intelligent person is turning away from them. The left has a very small window now to wake the fuck up, admit their mistakes and become worthy of voting for again. Less virtue signalling, more action. And yes, this includes deportation of people who have no right to be here or who we simply cannot afford to provide for.

ArabellaScott · 05/09/2025 08:20

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2025 08:05

Crime and poverty always go hand in hand.

Immigrants are always going to be a feature of that, because many seek to come to the UK for better economic opportunities and prospects.

This by default implies that their background prior to that is one where they are economically less well off.

So they start at the bottom of British society with the ambition and intention of moving up. This means they are in more difficult areas and are exposed to more social problems. There are often more limited legitimate opportunities than they envisaged and thus may be tempted by criminal opportunies or even necessity (just like those who have long established backgrounds in that same community).

Comparisons along race / immigration status lines often miss this problem. Comparing white affluence stable citizens with British ancestry to immigrants from none Western countries isn't a fair comparison. Comparing with white citizens of the same economic status is much more appropriate - and when you do that, you actually get a very different picture. It's a picture of political neglect of these communities and less access to opportunities compared to recent migrants. It's an economic problem primarily which are amplified by cultural differences, not caused by cultural differences.

This creates tension within an established community who feel like they are marginalised or shut out. If you have large numbers of people who can't speak English then even as the most welcoming person ever this can leave to difficulties in communication and yes perhaps a sense of social isolation and sense of second classness.

There has been a significant reduction in social mobility - again 2008 was a significant turning point in this. The removal of free university education was a consequence of government finances being squeezed post crash. This reduction of social mobility has caused resentment and frustration. Little to no investment in areas of low employment opportunities whilst then putting more competition for what jobs and housing are available is a total recipe for disaster for anyone with half a brain cell. Seeing money poor into schemes and support for migrants - however legitimate or fair their reasons are for coming to the UK - is going to lead to resentment. It's inevitable because human nature and sense of justice/fairness. You actually have to ask the question, why did no one consider this seriously rather than blaming any group involved at ground level. There's a total political void in thinking at this level. Anyone surprised it's manifesting as racism at times, needs to take a long hard look at what's happening at ground level..

It's the lefts political blind spot. Everyone has political blind spots, but the left were warned and told about it for decades but didn't take it seriously because it wasn't said by people with great educations and who are able to articulate the point well.

We've fallen into the fallacy of believing that if people are well spoken and educated they must be right but people who are lacking in this are stupid and ignorant and should be ignored.

That's not how democracies work and this arrogance in refusing to listen on a range of quite disparate and totally unrelated subjects has led to an era of grievance.

Dominic Cummings understood it. His strategy for the Official Vote Leave campaign was to not promise anything but instead hone in on these grievances and acknowledge them (this is why the leave promises were wishy washy, unconnected, sometimes contradictory and generally bollocks.) He knew that the electorate would take to the bits that connected with them and their lived experience and ignore everything else as just background noise. Arguably Farages unofficial leave campaign was actually a hindrance to this strategy because it had an image problem that drove off quite a lot of softer disillusioned who didn't like the racism.

Since then, the Conservatives were unable to move forward with Brexit promises which promised both nothing and the earth at the same time. In letting the electorate form individual concepts of what Brexit should look like in their own heads Cummings created millions of visions of Brexit but no unifying vision of Brexit which had widespread public consensus. It doomed the Conservatives to oblivion in the long run.

I think Labour recognised this danger to an extent but in taking over from the Tories and the shit show they left behind they are on a hiding to nothing especially post COVID.

Meanwhile Farage has realised how well Cummings strategy of focusing on disillusionment worked in gathering votes. And after years of things getting worse and being offered no other solution even moderates are turning to him because they've been failed and not acknowledged in their legitimate concerns. Instead they've been told to suck it up or worse told they are wrong and bigoted rather than politicians looking at the underlying issues.

As I say, Reform do not have the answers. When you see any reform candidate grilled on anything much at all they generally don't have many answers and often reveal pretty poor knowledge of the subject (see Farage on gender identity issues and where the law currently is. He couldn't identify the SC ruling and he couldn't identify the issue over medical transition not being enforceable as a prerequisite to certain rights under gender reassignment.)

Put them in power and it's going to be a car crash because they will clash with the law. Their only option will be a massive dismantling of political accountability to the public (basically public recourse through the courts) but it looks likely they will have the majority to be able to do this.

It will be a trainwreck and may end up with social unrest because it will increase rather than decrease disillusionment and levels of poverty and crime will increase.

I don't see any way around this inevitably.

As it stands if you are above a certain financial point now, you'll be ok. Be below a certain watershed and you will be utterly utterly fucked. A huge number of those who are planning to vote for Reform are below this watershed point.

The idea that a man who couldn't be fucked to turn up to his job in Brussels is suddenly going to have a personality transplant and start working his arse off running the country is the very definition of insanity itself. Yet unfortunately far too many people are buying into it.

Farage is in it for a get rich quick grift which will benefit him long term. Not to improve the country.

I am not always right with my political predictions but my track record is very good.

It scares the living bejesus out of me and I was saying prior to Mays deal being presented to the commons, that if people didn't recognise the dangers of being unable to deliver the undeliverable Farage would get in. I was worried then not about the next election but the one after that (May and Johnson decided to throw spanners in the works on how many elections it's actually turned out to be - my concern was really that we'd kick out the Tories, Labour would inherit a shit show and also fuck it up and we'd be left with a political void that Farage would capitalise on - I just got the number of PMs and elections wrong).

And here we are. Starring into the void.

It's shit. But predictable.

Yes. And Reform are.going to be the next government. The Tories are lost, and Labour is fractured and failing.

I can't imagine what carnage they are going to wreak - but those that vote for them are understandably beyond exasperated with politics in general.

Usou · 05/09/2025 08:20

What the OP experienced happened to me around 25-30 years ago.

Now I just ignore all the right/left labels and look for the truth.

Grooming gangs would be a good example. The truth of what is happening is obvious to anybody who looks for it, ignoring any existing agendas.

Shedmistress · 05/09/2025 08:23

SaidAHipHopTheHippieToTheHippie · 05/09/2025 08:04

Don’t confuse the two things. You can agree with one thing the right does, it doesn’t mean you should vote for them.

These racists flag flyers are probably GC too, if they were educated enough to understand the term. But their flags are not about the safety of women and girls.

The Tory stance on Trans issues is not about feminism!

It is this sort of immature generalisation that pisses people off.

Unless you did a survey of everyone who has ever raised a flag you have no idea why people are doing so.

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