NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #53

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025

Thanks for trying to fix some of my ignorance. It just was one of the few without a name attached, which makes it more interesting still, doesn't it? I shouldn't always misjudge politicians!

It’s down to the insurance cover. The medical people pay a lot in annual subscriptions which pays for their defence if there’s a claim. The GMC or HCPC or whoever is supposed to look after the complainant - so if people aren’t happy they should complain there - although it must be difficult to plan workload if claims come in randomly or bunched together by chance.

The pcc process is ghastly for all concerned - the initial part from claim notification to ftp/pcc hearing is about a year and if conditions are imposed it’s another year or more. I got to see one up close once and thought that both the medical professional and the complainant were roughly treated. It’s all about showing justice to be done for the general public - the individuals seem to get steamrollered by that whatever side they are on. And the expert witnesses take a pasting too. Horrible

I’m quite amazed about the apparent reversal of the strike-offs after the GMC decide but I suppose if the Dr shows remorse/progress or has been otherwise punished then it’s fair (depending on the charge) that they get a chance at rehabilitation like they would after a criminal charge. As with all these things, the case turns on the facts. I wasn’t sure we could get a fair picture looking at the guardian summary which obviously flagged the worst cases. I wonder what all the claims were about?

I think I still have 1 or 2 Michael Foran gift subscriptions too, if anyone needs one. He's very good at explaining the legal points and the implications (less so at sticking to time).

Nowadays, "colleague" doesn't necessarily mean a doctor, let alone an anaesthetist.

On the strange thinks that [some] Drs do theme, has anyone come across this character? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yvpx20le2o

NHS Fife ‘wasting more public money’ in Sandie Peggie trans case

https://www.thetimes.com/article/812beb2c-acc9-41e9-a69b-c62d547688a5?shareToken=7187e2b1c72ddf66738884abc931636d

This is the reply I received from the GMC when I e mailed to ask them about the recording of the sex of a doctor on their register and how I could ensure that I had a female doctor if I so wanted .

What exactly is the purpose of recording a doctor’s self-declared gender? I don’t see that there is one.

I suppose if the Dr shows remorse/progress or has been otherwise punished then it’s fair (depending on the charge) that they get a chance at rehabilitation like they would after a criminal charge.

All the charges mentioned were sexual misconduct. If we know anything at all about sexual offences it's that they tend to escalate.

Would someone not yet a doctor (or teacher, or any similar job working with vulnerable people) pass the checks to become one after a rape conviction? If not, why should someone be able to stay in the job with one? Chances for rehabilitation and reinstatement as a 'good, honest citizen' are restricted after serious convictions for good reason.

Interesting blog here, which tracks change back to 1996 when sex was last the required marker. Pretty sure this is a recent change to the searchable register though; it doesnt seem v long since it was possible to search a 'sounds like' name and specify man or woman when looking up a doctor.

www.sexnotgender.info/the-gendered-medical-council-1/

Oh god, if you search 'single sex' here, you can quickly find an EDI discussion about collecting and registering sex/gender data on GMC Registers here, in their 2022 Council Meeting. It's enraging stuff. https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/council-meeting22-june-2022---agenda-and-papers--for-publication----redactedpdf-92431381.pdf

What the hell was redacted here, I wonder? edit see para 9, screenshot hasn't posted

No matter what your views about Piers Morgan, this is an interesting one https://www.megynkelly.com/2025/09/09/non-binary-piers-morgan-guest-unable-to-explain-what-non-binary-means/ What I noticed is that she was right in there saying 'I'm that too' even though I'm not convinced that non binary is the same as transgender. Lots of other people seem to think it isn't. It seemed to me to be a 'look at me I'm specialer than any of you. I'm important, I am. More important than anyone else. So important that I shouldn't be expected to explain why. Now, where have I seen that before?

I was disappointed in the clip. She wasn't really put on the spot at all, because Morgan just interrupted her every time she opened her mouth. I was thinking Shut UP, Piers, and waiting to see what she could actually say about what non-binary means.

It always fascinates me how differently people see things. If she'd said what non binary was and why she thought she was transgender at the start or let the transgender person answer the question then none of it would have happened.

Exactly. Why would self declared, self identified gender be a mandatory requirement for them to capture? What relevance would it have?

I’m going to write to to the GMC and suggest they record every doctor’s favourite colour. It’s just as significant and useful.

does anyone know the basis on which they say they are mandated to capture “gender” information?

Edit: here it is:
https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/form-and-content-of-the-register-regulations_pdf-28140401.pdf

It includes “gender”. I wonder what the history of that is - this version dates from 2015. Some investigation to do, I think.

I wasn’t talking about the most serious offences like rape.

I clicked on a few cases but didn’t see evidence of any serious offender getting to keep their medical registration. Did you? If so thats shocking

does anyone know the basis on which they say they are mandated to capture “gender” information?

"Mandated" by StoneLaw perhaps?

@MyAmpleSheep
the screenshot above mentions the Medical Act, and The Form and Content of the Registers Regulations 2015. I’m gonna see if I can find that online.

Extract from Register Regulations

I think the use of gender is a classic example of (potentially deliberately) using gender as a synonym for sex highlighted by the Sullivan Review. On what basis could anyone argue that gender was a mandatory requirement and not sex?

Well this is interesting. Compared to the complaint responses received in Feb/March time, someone at the GMC has done a bit of homework. How ridiculous that gender is in the regulations?! That needs to be changed back to sex or to add sex as a category as thats the more important legal information for most people

ETA thanks for looking this up

Has the Streeting q&a happened yet?

Absolutely. Because it doesn’t ask for their sex. Which would be relevant to providing single sex care.

They used gender to mean sex and now they are trebling down.

I've decided that if/when a form asks for my gender identity again, or if it asks me to tick a hybrid category of actual woman and self-identified womanhood, I will make a GDPR complaint/question to them. I will ask them what their purpose is in storing this information about me, since organisations are not allowed to store personal data (esp 'sensitive' personal data) except under the terms of lawful purposes that the regulations specify.

Of course, there might be legitimate reasons for capturing info about transgender identity separately from sex. But, prima facie at least, not as an alternative to sex, or as part of a hybrid sex/identity category. It seems pretty clear that many organisations that ask for this info are not actually intending to use it and are therefore breaking the law by storing it unnecessarily.

Organisations are also supposed to have a privacy notice that outlines the purposes for which they collect your data. So, if they do collect 'gender identity' data, there should be some clear and lawful grounds for seeking this info stated on their website or in a similarly accessible place. If they do not provide such an explanation, this will also be part of my complaint.