NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #53

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025

No need to guess their sex. The article states that they were all male.

I saw the article recently about an anaesthesiologist who left his patient on the operating table whilst he went off to go have sex with a nurse and the GMC determined he was still fit to practice because it was a one-off and he was really sorry. That seems outrageous on so many levels.

That hypothesis is based on a very careful application of my total ignorance of court proceedings.

@ProfoundlyPeculiarAndWeird I just wanted to say I enjoyed that sentence very much 🤗

Astounding. The response being as useful as 'lessons will be learned'. No, they fucking won't. It might be noted somewhere but what actions have been taken to prevent it being done (not happening, someone actively made that choice) again?

he went off to go have sex with a nurse and the GMC determined he was still fit to practice because it was a one-off and he was really sorry.

What happened to the nurse? Did she also get off scot free or was she declared to be unfit to practice?

I think a few threads back someone posted a link to a site that let you look up NHS doctors' suspensions or strike offs and the reasons for them. It was quite an eye opener.

This problem was covered on Woman's Hour today. One thing that struck me was the comment that a particular problem was the massive difference in support given to the doctor and to the victims/witnesses. Sounds familiar.

Tony Capstick was a regular on the folk and working man’s clubs circuits in the North. He did music, comedy and bits of acting in the telly. A contemporary of Mike Harding who is still going strong and a great favourite of the Harpy family when I was growing up. Mike also uses wazzock as a term of “endearment”. (I might have inherited fairly sizeable collection of his records, still funny now).

I dont know if Tony ever said it, but my Dad always used to say 'wart faced wazzock'. Wart was of course with a very elongated a and a missing t from the end. Our family also loved Tony Capstick, very funny man. Please dont anyone google and find anything untoward about Tony.

What about the other medical staff in the theatre at the time? I’ve been for many, many operations, and there are always other various staff working in the theatre. I cannot see how the anaesthetist could just pop out of theatre to get his rocks off while a patient is under anaesthesia. That poor patient, and shame on the other staff if they just looked the other way.

Looking at it from their perspective, they're short of doctors and doctors themselves, but they've got a waiting list of patients so they can afford to kill/maim/ damage a few of them!

Pardon the bitterness. I've waited a month for an emergency appointment to be brought forward from mid December. It has been. It's now November 30th!

As an anaesthetist I totally agree complete lunacy both the behaviour and the outcome

Was it not in that song parodying the Hovis advert!

Yer spawny eyed, parrot faced wazzock!

(Autocarrot made it warlock).

https://www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions

I see I should have read the thread!

I have the vaguest of memories of this, but had no idea it was a DJ or that it was performed on Top of the Pops!!!😂❤

I think I invented the DJ bit.

'Wassock' was very popular at my school because of that record.

The GMC fawning over doctors who are sorry for their one-off atrocities is eye-watering. Esp men from elite public schools. A woman of colour usually gets burned at the GMC stake annually for using the wrong words to lay claim on a work laptop to be used for work purposes, or similar nonsense, but the men folk, whose parents paid so much for their education, are to be adored.

Apparently left a colleague in charge … I’m guessing he was found out because of the other medical staff commenting. IMO, the anaesthesiologist is the most important person in the room. He would’ve obviously had his mind on ‘things’ other than his patient in front of him well before actually leaving the room. Not good.

I didn't mean to start Tunnocks wars, either... It sort of seems inevitable on MN, given the ...

I feel quite 'hung over' today after a late night with no alcohol but Michael Foran's tribunal coverage played at 2x speed while I pottered around to the early hours. I highly recommend a £5 monthly subscription for anyone wanting to hear his near daily thoughts on the July/September public hearings. Or maybe someone with a subscription will have a gift subscription lying around if you check threads here (I don't have any, sorry).

It's so interesting (as a remote observer) to hear his explanations of the possible intentions of counsel in the questions they asked, and his thoughts on what the panel may be taking from the various witness testimonies. There was so much new information, and so many unexpected turns that I couldn't take everything in at the time, and I am loving the opportunity to replay it again now (slowing to 1x speed for the breathtaking parts!)

I think you get access to a few articles and videos for joining as a free subscriber on the app, if anyone wants a taster: https://knowingius.org/

Also, a reminder that NC/CE skeleton argument, speaking notes and closing submission docs are linked about halfway down the page here: by Tribunal tweets substack https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6 You need to read all three as some of the points are referred to but not repeated in the final submission. But they are such a treat, the time will fly by and feel like being immersed in the best netflix drama you could ever hope for!

(I have no connection to Michael or Naomi or anyone involved on the case or on mumsnet. Just being over-enthusiastic with sharing links!)

Sorry. I'm less mobile than usual, so more odd links I'm finding. https://www.conservatives.com/conference/agenda They have a gender critical debate but no one wants to admit to proposing it. Please, someone, convince me that the tide is starting to turn and I'm just not seeing it properly yet.

@Easytoconfuse the tide is definitely turning, but the battle is by no means over. There are a lot of vested interests - both the people who have lied, and the people who have been lied to and don't want to admit it.

I am hopeful that the GMC will take lying at the tribunal very seriously and take the appropriate action against DU for dishonesty.

The anaesthetist said he was going to the loo, leaving the patient, which is fine apparently. Maybe there was another anaesthetist present.

"No-one wants to admit to proposing it" is a strange interpretation. All the lack of any name above it means is that it isn't a speech by a member of the Shadow Cabinet.

I think the tide is turning, but it will be a long fight and there may well be setbacks. There are 22 countries that allow gender self-ID (12 of them in Europe), along with some parts of federated countries such as Canada, Australia and the USA. The tide needs to turn everywhere, not just in the UK. As long as it remains elsewhere, there is a danger that trans rights activists will be able to regain ground here.