Esther Ghey, school phone ban

[Davros]

I heard her on R4’s Today programme this morning. I thought she was great, really impressive. I wonder how far down the rabbit hole Brianna would have gone if this campaign had been around then.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgng2l7d36o.amp

I live in France and didn't actually know this. Fully in favour though.

Yes!

I agree. I am in disagreement with the current trans movement and err more on the side of the feminist stance. That said, Brianna went by female pronouns and her mother recognises this. I don't think this thread discussing Mrs Gheys campaign to curb phone use due to feeling it was a contributing factor of her child's death, is the place to pull apart their trans identity and Esther Gheys stance on validating it. It's distasteful.

If you can't use 'her' or 'daughter'. Using 'their' or 'Brianna' or 'their child' is at least less obnoxious than purposefully saying 'he' 'her son' just to prove a point.

You said it "proving a point"

Stating facts is not being obnoxious, and forced speech just isn't cricket.

This isn't the point of the thread though. It's a discussion on phone use curbing in schools.

I know it's not. So why did you get onto the subject of pronouns?

So don't bring up pronouns then, @BollyKnickerz , as that is not the topic of the thread.

I will re-post two of my posts from earlier for you;

He was a male. It is disrespectful for you to come on a womens rights forum and try to guilt and gaslight us women - with lived experience as girls and women, females, and our oppression - to call a male by female pronouns. Just who do you think you are to make that demand? Have some respect for us! We say NO! Got it?

and

Further, most of these boys 'views' of what a girl/woman is, is pornified, hence Brianna's "provocative" sexy poses and posing sexually in the girls toilets at school, upsetting the girls there, YET he still punched holes in the walls at home like a strong violent male. And menaced and bullied his mother with his male strength and male violence.

So no, we will not, not now, not ever call a male who took photos in the girls toilets upsetting the girls at the school there and who punched holes in the walls of his mother's house 'she/her'. You know where you can get with that gaslighting and disrespectful demand of the oppressed sex class!

Plus he is dead it's not like he is here to get upset at us correctly-sexing him, anyway.

I started this thread in FWR partly because of the campaign to limit phone use in schools but really to discuss the influence of gender ideology via SM. So it isn’t just about phone use in schools, my interest is also how much this affected Brianna’s exploration of trans sexuality

I didn't..... I replied to a post. You decided to comment on my reply !? 🥴

I didn't "bring up pronouns" I replied to someone else's post. You decided to rip apart my reply to that post !?

That's fair enough if that was your intended discussion

Because you decided to scold women for us not being gaslit to mis-sex a male.

I didn't "scold" anyone.

I fully support a ban on phones in schools but I don't think it will protect children like Brianna, either from identifying as trans or from being murdered.

I would imagine that most of the internet use that leads children down a dangerous path happens in the privacy of their own homes. They're hardly going to using the dark web to plot a murder on their phone in double maths, are they?

And although Esther Ghey has not indicated that she ever had a problem with Brianna's transgender identity, if she does privately grieve the fact that Brianna wanted to live as a girl, I don't suppose Brianna went down the trans rabbit hole due to phone use in school time either. More likely at night, in bed.

Phone use during school time is bad because it distracts children from their education.

But being exposed to dangerous ideas via mobile phone use is a different problem. It's about children having unsupervised access to the internet.

I find it disgusting you’re making a big deal over Brianna being trans, and wanting to be called her. A judge found she was murdered for being trans, a 15 year old trans girl. You’re online anonymously making a massive deal and validating the same factor which played in her murder. Do you really think that is less offensive than someone acknowledging a trans woman on a feminist forum?

Yes... yes I did. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Brianna wasn't murdered for being trans. Brianna was murdered for being vulnerable.

He repeatedly referred to Brianna as “it” and said he wanted to know if “it would scream like a man or a girl” and to see “what size dick it had” - this was said by one of the murderers, sounds pretty much as though Brianna being trans did play a factor.

Brianna was one of a list of potential victims, and not even top of the list. None of the other victims were trans. The murderers were evil, fucked up little shits, but Brianna being trans clearly wasn't a primary motivation for them. And even if it had been, the murder of a trans identifying victim isn't more tragic than the murder of a non trans identifying victim.

The judge found it was only part of the reason with one of the killers.

The prosecutors found no evidence Brianna being trans had anything to do with it.

The point is, we are talking about a male. A boy. No woman should be gaslit to mis-sex a male and deny our actual sex-based oppression. That, is disgusting. And misogynistic.

Brianna wasn't the first choice of victim. There was a list, and none of the others were trans.

Brianna was, sadly, the first one available to the twisted little fucks.

Okay so the prosecutors have found no reason to suggest it was anything to do with her being trans and I’m wrong, but this is a human being (a child) who only ever had 15 years living and experiencing life. You’re on here invalidating and shaming the small amount of time Brianna had. Why?

I am not 'invalidating' or 'shaming' a male by saying he is a male. You're being ridiculous!

I think ridiculous is choosing this topic and person to choose this debate over in the first place. There’s millions other examples to choose from- don’t use a dead 15 year old child. You don’t know who could read this. Would you argue or make the point to a grieving mother about your views of trans rights etc? Common decency isn’t hard to find or understand. Easy to lose it on an anonymous site though

I don't think anybody should be doing that. I try very hard to avoid using gendered pronouns when referring to Brianna because I don't want to cause any additional distress or hurt to Brianna's family.

But I also think that using opposite sexed pronouns for someone only in circumstances where you think the person is particularly vulnerable or deserving of kindness is a slippery slope. You either believe it or you don't.

In any case I do believe that Brianna's transgender identity is basically irrelevant. The tragedy is the fact that a child was murdered. It is no more or less tragic because that child identified as trans. And the factors that contributed to it are far more complicated than "transphobia". I think Esther Ghey is right to point to young people's phone use, or more accurately, unsupervised internet use, as a major contributing factor.