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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Incident with male security guard

76 replies

Femalespaces · 03/09/2025 08:51

My daughter works at a store within a supermarket. They have to use the public toilets. This morning she went to the toilet before her shift at like 7.30 am. Women toilets and locked in a cubicle with her lower clothes down using the toilet.
She was aware someone had come in the toilet. But all of a sudden without the door being knocked a foot appeared under the door and he opened it from the outside and opened the door. She says she screamed and pulled the handle up and said ‘what are you doing?’
As she left the toilet he tried to speak to her. She phoned me in a panic and I advised her to report it straight to her manager. She said the manager said ‘yes he does it sometimes. There is a problem with the toilets and then can lock shut with no one in them’.

Ive told my daughter this isn’t good enough. And to raise it with the manager of the store. My daughter is young (just post school age). The woman involved could have been a child or ND etc and as a woman who has been raped I feel sick. I have drafted a letter very quickly I’m at work - please can I have your advice

this is the letter I have so far
3rd September 2025

Dear Sir/Madam (The Manager) of X Supermarket at X location

This morning Wednesday 3rd September 2025, I received a very distressed phone call from my daughter X. X has recently started work at X, within the X supermarkert.
She left for work about 7.30am and before her shift upon arriving at the store she went into the FEMALE toilets at the store to use the toilets. She was in a cubicle and the cubicle was locked. She was using the toilet for intended purposes. She was aware of someone coming in after her, but could not hear what they said. The toilet door was locked.
To her horror a foot appeared under the door and then someone attempted to open it from the outside. She immediately screamed and pulled the handle up and screamed ‘what are you doing?’. The door had been opened from the outside.
The man involved was the security guard from the store.
This is totally and utterly traumatising for X who phoned me in a panic and distressed whilst I was on my way to work. Horrifyingly she immediately reported it to her manager, X at X who said ‘I don’t like it either, he does it sometimes. The toilets can get locked without anyone in it so he says he check them’.
THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE for multiple reasons.

  1. Biological male are NOT allowed in FEMALE safe spaces -this is a UK Ruling
  2. He opened the door on a female user when it was locked
  3. This is an assault
  4. It sounds like he has done this before from what DD has been told.
This is utterly terrifying. Speaking as a woman who has been sexually assaulted myself, female only spaces are protected. I can not see why a male is in there, or indeed in there at all given his position.

I need help please - help with drafting a letter
[Post edited by MNHQ to remove name]

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 03/09/2025 08:55

Firstly I hope your DD is ok, it must have been very frightening
Secondly you have put her name in your post so you should get MNHQ to edit that
Thirdly is she is old enough to work she is old enough to raise this herself rather than you doing it, although you may want to help her with how to do this effectively

elgreco · 03/09/2025 08:59

Yes, get her name removed from your post.
Then rewrite from her voice and sign her name if 18 or over.
Thats sounds terrifying.

SharonEllis · 03/09/2025 09:02

I would definitely get dsughter to sign the letter not you.

It is legal for a male security guard to be there as part of a routine check etc but he should announce himself clearly whe he goes in. He should knock on the door to see if someone is in the cubicle before opening it. If there is a problem with the door it should be fixed so there is no need for the security guard to force it. Sounds like a lot of bad practice and you are right to address it but I wouldnt overdo the emotive language. I also dont think its assault and I wouldnt put such an accusation in the letter. Did the guard apologise? His behaviour is quite important for his manager to address.

Corfumanchu · 03/09/2025 09:03

Sometimes staff will legitimately need to go in the opposite sex toilets. I get that, and yes, peipke do for a 'joke' lock the door r from the outside, or staff if it is out of order.
Howevsr the security should call out first to see if anyone was there. Tbey certainly should not unlock a locked cubicle without calling and knocking and waiting to see if anyone was in there! The only defence would be if your dd had earpods in blaring out music and couldnt hear a dicky bird?

myplace · 03/09/2025 09:04

He should be knocking more than once before opening a locked door.

Who else is finding the doors are self locking?

Why is he the one sorting it, surely it’s more appropriate for female store staff to check when they use the facilities, that locked cubicles have someone in them.

Corfumanchu · 03/09/2025 09:04

Ps it is not assault

Redflagsabounded · 03/09/2025 09:10

She needs to write the letter NOT her mum otherwise it makes her look ridiculous.

Male staff can enter women's loos for work purposes but should be a damn sight more careful.

It's not assault.

Keep to the issue - he forced the door open without checking if anyone was inside, and the manager dismissed her concerns, both of which are completely unacceptable.

Magenta82 · 03/09/2025 09:14

How old is she? If she is over 18 you have no business writing in on her behalf, it will undermine her at that job.

Its a good letter but needs re-writting from her point of view.

If she is a minor it would still be better if she wrote it and her letter should mention her age as an agrivating factor.

Northquit · 03/09/2025 09:29

Our supermarket toilets have a sheet which staff sign to say they've checked
Is it in his job description? Does he sign to say he's checked them or us it random following women in.

‘I don’t like it either, he does it sometimes. The toilets can get locked without anyone in it so he says he check them’.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 03/09/2025 09:49

Femalespaces · 03/09/2025 08:51

My daughter works at a store within a supermarket. They have to use the public toilets. This morning she went to the toilet before her shift at like 7.30 am. Women toilets and locked in a cubicle with her lower clothes down using the toilet.
She was aware someone had come in the toilet. But all of a sudden without the door being knocked a foot appeared under the door and he opened it from the outside and opened the door. She says she screamed and pulled the handle up and said ‘what are you doing?’
As she left the toilet he tried to speak to her. She phoned me in a panic and I advised her to report it straight to her manager. She said the manager said ‘yes he does it sometimes. There is a problem with the toilets and then can lock shut with no one in them’.

Ive told my daughter this isn’t good enough. And to raise it with the manager of the store. My daughter is young (just post school age). The woman involved could have been a child or ND etc and as a woman who has been raped I feel sick. I have drafted a letter very quickly I’m at work - please can I have your advice

this is the letter I have so far
3rd September 2025

Dear Sir/Madam (The Manager) of X Supermarket at X location

This morning Wednesday 3rd September 2025, I received a very distressed phone call from my daughter X. X has recently started work at X, within the X supermarkert.
She left for work about 7.30am and before her shift upon arriving at the store she went into the FEMALE toilets at the store to use the toilets. She was in a cubicle and the cubicle was locked. She was using the toilet for intended purposes. She was aware of someone coming in after her, but could not hear what they said. The toilet door was locked.
To her horror a foot appeared under the door and then someone attempted to open it from the outside. She immediately screamed and pulled the handle up and screamed ‘what are you doing?’. The door had been opened from the outside.
The man involved was the security guard from the store.
This is totally and utterly traumatising for X who phoned me in a panic and distressed whilst I was on my way to work. Horrifyingly she immediately reported it to her manager, X at X who said ‘I don’t like it either, he does it sometimes. The toilets can get locked without anyone in it so he says he check them’.
THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE for multiple reasons.

  1. Biological male are NOT allowed in FEMALE safe spaces -this is a UK Ruling
  2. He opened the door on a female user when it was locked
  3. This is an assault
  4. It sounds like he has done this before from what DD has been told.
This is utterly terrifying. Speaking as a woman who has been sexually assaulted myself, female only spaces are protected. I can not see why a male is in there, or indeed in there at all given his position.

I need help please - help with drafting a letter
[Post edited by MNHQ to remove name]

I don't want to scaremonger, but I have a close young female family member who was raped at her workplace by one of her colleagues in the staff changing room.

She had previously mentioned to her manager that the man who eventually raped her was making her uncomfortable with his inappropriate behaviour and the manager did not take her seriously at all and like your daughters manager, made excuses for him.

I would strongly encourage your daughter to quit immediately if you can. It's just not worth the risk when incidents like this happen!

What happened to your daughter really, really crosses a line and the manager is not taking it seriously!

Hoppinggreen · 03/09/2025 10:14

You don't want to scaremonger and then proceeded to

Keeptoiletssafe · 03/09/2025 10:15

A man entered the ladies years ago when I was the only one in there. I saw his shoes from my cubicle. He waited in front of my cubicle and I was frozen to the spot. He ran out when another lady came in. It could have been malicious, or less likely I think it could have been he suddenly realised he had gone in the wrong loos. I remember being scared and the other lady was a bit shocked too.

The door gaps are there to prevent misbehaviour and know if someone needs help inside the cubicle. This is also why ‘locked’ isn’t what people sometimes imagine it to be. For very important safety reasons, building regs mean all toilets should be able to be opened from the outside if someone collapses. (Obviously in this case it was misused). In a supermarket an old man lay on the floor for overnight in the disabled toilet at the entrance, where loads of people would have been able to help if they had known. I know someone recently was found after 6 days in some offices. If you google, you will find that it happens quite a lot. Stress the importance to your daughter of why the design is as it is - albeit in this case the employer needs a new door or lock asap.

I think there’s several things going on here.
Firstly from the employers. They have admitted this has happened before. This is unsafe. The toilet lock needs sorting now. They need to replace the door and hopefully abide by Document T (building regs). I would suggest they ask for the door to naturally rest open or semi open. They also know he has a habit of doing this. They should have had a protocol like he knocked on each cubicle door.

What I find worrying is your daughter said he followed her in. This may have been him just doing his routine but I would want to know what happened before. If he was warning her about the door he shouldn’t have tried to open it. The gaps mean he should be able to be heard so there’s no excuse. Mixed sex designs and increasingly single sex designs are fully enclosed and sound resistant so you get less warning if someone enters.

I would be minded to go to the toilets and see sightlines. If she saw his shoes he should have seen hers. The reply from the manager needs clarification does she mean, ‘he checks on the lock, I don’t like him going in the ladies?’ If so the most charitable explanation is he didn’t notice your daughter going in and he wanted to check the door was ok because it’s horrible getting stuck in a cubicle and management aren’t sorting it. He would be the first port-of-call for entering the toilet if something happened in there. This of course will be what he says.

The lock/door needs sorting today and his protocol for entering the toilets needs to change, which all new starters should be told about. Checking the toilets should be the first and last thing he does, after everyone leaves and before anyone enters. If there’s anything more going on it’s difficult without further details. It is on management that this never happens again.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 03/09/2025 10:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

JeremiahBullfrog · 03/09/2025 10:25

It's not assault.

"Common assault is an act by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to suffer or apprehend immediate unlawful violence."

So there are two tests here:

Has the young woman apprehended immediate unlawful violence? I think most people would in this situation!

And was the cause of this intentional or reckless? No evidence for the former, but I think you could make a damn good argument that forcing a toilet door open without checking to see if the cubicle is occupied is reckless!

SirBasil · 03/09/2025 10:27

Northquit · 03/09/2025 09:29

Our supermarket toilets have a sheet which staff sign to say they've checked
Is it in his job description? Does he sign to say he's checked them or us it random following women in.

‘I don’t like it either, he does it sometimes. The toilets can get locked without anyone in it so he says he check them’.

checking them, as a grown man knows, is calling out before going in the ladies, then knocking and asking, knocking again and then getting a female member of staff to accompany him before opening the door.

OP ask that this is incorporated into his procedures.

ETA: but yes, get dd to rewrite it and sign it in her name and "voice"

Springtimehere · 03/09/2025 10:34

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Thelnebriati · 03/09/2025 11:25

The letter needs to be a lot shorter and factual, so cool down before you attempt a rewrite:

'On X date and time the security guard neglected to announce he was entering the female toilets on his routine check, he opened the cubicle door while I was using the toilet and scared me.
I need to raise this issue with my manager, and request that the procedure for checking the female toilets is reviewed'.

Keeptoiletssafe · 03/09/2025 12:05

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

I think it is relevant for the poster to mention it in the context of this thread. If her daughter knows about it will be relevant too in terms of perspective.

I campaign on toilet safety because I know what happens when the design is good for safety and when it goes wrong. You become aware of patterns in behaviour too. I don’t think I am over vigilant but I would be the one knocking on a full height door and checking someone is alright before anyone else bothered.

I have found some people who should know better, but have lived a more uneventful life, have said toilets should be inclusive to everyone and private because that’s what they are like at home. Toilets outside the home are a very different environment. They are not comparable. That’s why it’s important the EHRC get it right with single sex spaces. Health and safety is paramount.

AnotherAngryAcademic · 03/09/2025 12:15

As a deaf person, I am curious about the idea that it is ok for a man to open a locked cubicle in the women's toilets if he firsts calls/knocks to check if someone is in there.

If the woman in there can't hear him, is it ok for him to open the door?!

If it is his job to check the security of the toilets - and it is clear in many places that there are male attendees, as announced by signs - surely he should be informing a female colleague who could then open the door?

latetothefisting · 03/09/2025 12:33

Agree the letter would be better written as her.

Also needs to spell out exactly what is wrong as it wasn't clear from your post.

Was it conceivable that he didn't know she was in there? Could his account be "I asked loudly if anyone was there and there was no response?" So the main issue is a) they need to fix the lock and b) he needs to be told to try several times (knocking and shouting) to make absolutely sure there is nobody in there before trying to open it

Or (if she goes back and asks a colleague to sit on the loo) would it be very obvious that the cubicle is occupied in which case its obviously much more serious and she needs to be very specific in saying that and specifying "he said something but it was not in a loud voice and did not give me time to respond. He did not knock on the door or try to ask again if it was occupied before forcing it open."

TallulahBetty · 03/09/2025 12:35

Corfumanchu · 03/09/2025 09:04

Ps it is not assault

Yes, it is.

Offences against the Person, incorporating the Charging Standard | The Crown Prosecution Service

dogcatkitten · 03/09/2025 12:38

Was this before opening time? If as said the doors sometimes self lock, this may have been a routine first thing check to make sure all the doors were unlocked. A request to make sure they knock rather than assume there is no one in there would seem sensible.

napody · 03/09/2025 12:41

SirBasil · 03/09/2025 10:27

checking them, as a grown man knows, is calling out before going in the ladies, then knocking and asking, knocking again and then getting a female member of staff to accompany him before opening the door.

OP ask that this is incorporated into his procedures.

ETA: but yes, get dd to rewrite it and sign it in her name and "voice"

Edited

This is exactly what should happen.
Agree with the amendments and also that it needs to come from your daughter, not you.

Edited to add: this process also covers @AnotherAngryAcademic 's very good point about a deaf person in the cubicle. Could also be someone using headphones. And finally he can't 'prove' he called out. The only way to sort it is to remove 'busting into ladies' toilet cubicles' from his job description!

Keeptoiletssafe · 03/09/2025 12:56

AnotherAngryAcademic · 03/09/2025 12:15

As a deaf person, I am curious about the idea that it is ok for a man to open a locked cubicle in the women's toilets if he firsts calls/knocks to check if someone is in there.

If the woman in there can't hear him, is it ok for him to open the door?!

If it is his job to check the security of the toilets - and it is clear in many places that there are male attendees, as announced by signs - surely he should be informing a female colleague who could then open the door?

In this case it’s even more curious because he could see her feet too.

It is ok to open the door if you are seriously worried about the person inside. Delays cost lives.

TheignT · 03/09/2025 12:57

Don't send that letter, she isn't at school taking a note from mum, help her don't do it for her.

Is checking the toilets part of his job? Sometimes cleaning and security checks are done by men so she needs to clarify that.

You say he said something but she didn't hear what he said, was he warning that he was in there, did she acknowledge him?

Do they have staff toilets and if so why can't she use them.

Is she in a union, they would be useful to support her.

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