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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR asking similar questions to what I have been asking for years on here.

469 replies

DialSquare · 01/09/2025 12:11

Copied from Nitter

J.K. Rowling@jk_rowling29m
As another man who once worked with me declares himself saddened by my beliefs on gender and sex, I thought it might be useful to compile a list for handy reference. Which of the following do you imagine makes actors and directors who aren’t involved with the HBO reboot of Harry Potter so miserable?

Is it my belief that women and girls should have their own public changing rooms and bathrooms?

That women should retain female-only rape crisis centres?

That men don’t belong in women’s sport?

That female prisoners shouldn’t be incarcerated with violent men and male sex offenders?

That women should remain a protected class in law, because they have sex-specific needs and issues?

That language should reflect reality rather than ideological jargon, especially in a medical context?

That women shouldn’t be harassed, persecuted or fired for refusing to pretend humans can change sex?

That women should not be threatened with violence and rape when they assert their rights?

That freedom of speech and belief are essential to a pluralistic democratic society?

That troubled minors, especially those who are gay, autistic and trauma-experienced, should be given mental health support instead of irreversible surgeries and drug treatments on non-existent evidence of benefit?

That gay people shouldn’t be pressured to include the opposite sex in their dating pools, nor should they be smeared as ‘genital fetishists’ when they don’t?

That cross-dressing heterosexual male fetishists aren’t actually oppressed, but having the time of their lives piggybacking off gender identity ideology?

That said ideology, and the privileged, blinkered fools pushing it because they suffer zero consequences themselves, have done more damage to the political left’s credibility than Trump and Farage could have achieved in a century?

Let me have your thoughts.

This sums up the views of the majority of posters on this board, however, we often have other posters tell us they don’t agree with us, but never what views they don’t actually agree with.

So, those of you that don’t agree with the majority view on here, what is it about the above that you don’t agree with?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
Charabanc · 01/09/2025 14:54

ThisChicPinkRaven · 01/09/2025 14:51

Just... wow.
I don't think conversation is possible when you have responses like this.

There's a desire for intelligent discourse and then there's weapons-grade stupidity. As the former has evidently left the building...

You said this. In bold!

JKR's support for women and women's right is extremely commendable. Her sneering, spiteful punching down comments against certain groups in society is not.

And a PP disagreed with your framing. Then you called them stupid? Just... wow.

Merrymouse · 01/09/2025 14:54

ThisChicPinkRaven · 01/09/2025 14:51

Just... wow.
I don't think conversation is possible when you have responses like this.

There's a desire for intelligent discourse and then there's weapons-grade stupidity. As the former has evidently left the building...

So you don’t believe it’s acceptable for women to set boundaries or make objective statements about sex.

Its good to be able to get to the root of the problem.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/09/2025 14:55

ThisChicPinkRaven · 01/09/2025 14:51

Just... wow.
I don't think conversation is possible when you have responses like this.

There's a desire for intelligent discourse and then there's weapons-grade stupidity. As the former has evidently left the building...

Whereas using terms like ‘cult leader….’
I mean that really is wow, that is not remotely conducive to civilized discussion.
I’m afraid some of us were members of the strange cult defending women’s rights and concerned about vulnerable youngsters years before jkr joined our ranks.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/09/2025 14:56

ThisChicPinkRaven · 01/09/2025 14:02

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not deliberately missing the point here.

On that basis, if you re-read my post and think about it you will (hopefully!) see that I have no issue with - indeed, actively support - her work for us, our right to single-sex spaces, etc. My issue is that she repeatedly and demonstrably sneers at certain groups in our society. It's ugly, unnecessary, and unwelcome.

The problem is not her own, clearly embittered, opinion about certain groups of people; it's that her very public spite is absorbed my the less enlightened among her followers and that, in turn, becomes what I can only imagine is frighteningly aggressive ideological opposition to the rights of said groups.
Again, that kind of behaviour is ugly, unnecessary, and unwelcome.

I wonder how polite you would be in her position, towards the group who have been relentlessly defaming her, and in some case sending her rape and death threats, for the last six years?

AnSolas · 01/09/2025 14:58

Howseitgoin · 01/09/2025 13:46

It's called a Motte & Bailey.

If JKR's 'opinions' were just limited to the above that would be a reasonable view despite them being easily managed to minimise harm. But she does as so many GC's do which is so much more via her twitter account in routinely implying trans people are dangerous delusional predatory sexual deviants with no associations to women.

When called out for this behaviour she immediately reverts to her more palatable view point as if that's all she is doing. An utterly conniving manipulative cruel fraudster who not only facilitates the political & social harms trans people are forced to face as a result of her huge reach & influence but the distraction from significantly more serious feminist issues such as endemic domestic violence, sexual violence, women's mental health issues & online misogyny to name a few.

Media focus being finite means that where one issue incessantly dominates other issues get left for dead. Perhaps that's why far right misogynistic men are so delighted to have such a distraction from male responsibilities not to mention a return to women being no more than their reproductive characteristics is a regression dream come true.

Wake up useful idiots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

You mean eg one tweet where she said male rapist and men and TRA lost their shit and decided that it has to be about "all 'genuine' trans iding males who could nvere be a rapist because (checks notes) 'genuine' trans Iding males dont rape and if the male is a rapist he could not have been a 'genuine' trans IDing male to begin with"

Was that about right or can you provide evidence of your claim?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/09/2025 15:03

AnSolas · 01/09/2025 14:58

You mean eg one tweet where she said male rapist and men and TRA lost their shit and decided that it has to be about "all 'genuine' trans iding males who could nvere be a rapist because (checks notes) 'genuine' trans Iding males dont rape and if the male is a rapist he could not have been a 'genuine' trans IDing male to begin with"

Was that about right or can you provide evidence of your claim?

If only there was a workable definition of "genuine trans".

lechiffre55 · 01/09/2025 15:03

@ThisChicPinkRaven
JKR's support for women and women's right is extremely commendable. Her sneering, spiteful punching down comments against certain groups in society is not.

Why not just expand on the second part and try to use less inflammatory words? I'd like to know what you mean, but your choice of sneering, spiteful punching down causes whatever you point is to be lost because of those words. I'd like to know what you were trying to say please.

Flakey99 · 01/09/2025 15:03

ThisChicPinkRaven · 01/09/2025 13:50

This happens with her a lot more than her die-hard fans would care to acknowledge (I'm sure we all remember her tweet in which she unnecessarily mocked an awareness day for asexuals).

Her support for women and women's rights is laudable and isn't in question [I've emphasised this for the hard of thinking]; it's the nasty and, perhaps tellingly, spiteful, opinionated behaviour she often exhibits that creates such disapproval of - and opposition to - her.

Another example of the power she wields? Her cult will be along shortly in an attempt to character assassinate me for posting anything other than fawning, mindless adoration of her.

Edited

I love how you deliberately misconstrue her ACTUAL WORDS to create an entirely different narrative.

Don’t give up the day job…🙄

AnSolas · 01/09/2025 15:04

ThisChicPinkRaven · 01/09/2025 13:50

This happens with her a lot more than her die-hard fans would care to acknowledge (I'm sure we all remember her tweet in which she unnecessarily mocked an awareness day for asexuals).

Her support for women and women's rights is laudable and isn't in question [I've emphasised this for the hard of thinking]; it's the nasty and, perhaps tellingly, spiteful, opinionated behaviour she often exhibits that creates such disapproval of - and opposition to - her.

Another example of the power she wields? Her cult will be along shortly in an attempt to character assassinate me for posting anything other than fawning, mindless adoration of her.

Edited

Anybody who has to "celebrate" Celibacy or Medical issues (or the multiple other reasons people dont have sex) need to be mocked.

And also be told fuck right off with the storyline that everybody else is having sex all of the time.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 01/09/2025 15:04

ThisChicPinkRaven · 01/09/2025 14:19

That's an interesting perspective, and not one I wholly agree with.

Is a cult leader responsible for the behaviour of their cult members? Is an influencer responsible for the behaviour of their followers?

I'd suggest that most of us can agree that human beings, collectively, really aren't very bright and often simply and blindly mimic those who influence them.

If you are a die-hard fan of a person of influence then it's a fair bet whatever that person says or does is likely to influence your own opinions and, perhaps, lend legitimacy to your behaviour.
Now, I'd politely suggest that if a person who has influence over you - as JKR has over many - makes comments that are pejorative then the chances of you mirroring those in your own life are high.

For the avoidance of confusion by some of in this thread, I will say again - and for the last time - that JKR's support for women and women's right is extremely commendable. Her sneering, spiteful punching down comments against certain groups in society is not.

Edit: Emboldened the salient point as it seems some people are astoundingly adept at missing the point when it doesn't align with their opinion 🙄

Edited

‘Is a cult leader responsible for the behaviour of their cult members? Is an influencer responsible for the behaviour of their followers?’

JKR is neither a cult leader nor an influencer, she’s an author who supports the rights of women and girls. She’s a philanthropist who has to date, has given away approximately £250 million pounds of her fortune to good causes, and has set up several foundations to support women and girls. Your point would have relevance if she was trying to persuade people to believe things that aren’t true, but she is simply stating simple, biological facts.

I’m not a die hard fan of anyone, or the films for that matter, because I am an adult and can think for myself, but when a woman with her profile is prepared to stand up and say what needs to be said, despite the appalling rape and death threats she receives, then I will support her, because what she’s saying is factually correct. I think you are misunderstanding the women on this forum, because we don’t need to agree with everything she says or does, because we’re adults and we can think for ourselves.

Thanks for the patronising edit by the way, that’s a real first.

lechiffre55 · 01/09/2025 15:04

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/09/2025 15:03

If only there was a workable definition of "genuine trans".

If you'll accept an unworkable definition, there already is a definition.
Anyone who says they are.

DialSquare · 01/09/2025 15:05

ThisChicPinkRaven · 01/09/2025 14:51

Just... wow.
I don't think conversation is possible when you have responses like this.

There's a desire for intelligent discourse and then there's weapons-grade stupidity. As the former has evidently left the building...

You posted this earlier on in the thread.

Her cult will be along shortly in an attempt to character assassinate me for posting anything other than fawning, mindless adoration of her.

Yet, you’re the only poster I have seen accusing people of being stupid. In fact, you are pretty nasty about the posters on this board in the quote above alone.

OP posts:
Charabanc · 01/09/2025 15:06

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 01/09/2025 15:04

‘Is a cult leader responsible for the behaviour of their cult members? Is an influencer responsible for the behaviour of their followers?’

JKR is neither a cult leader nor an influencer, she’s an author who supports the rights of women and girls. She’s a philanthropist who has to date, has given away approximately £250 million pounds of her fortune to good causes, and has set up several foundations to support women and girls. Your point would have relevance if she was trying to persuade people to believe things that aren’t true, but she is simply stating simple, biological facts.

I’m not a die hard fan of anyone, or the films for that matter, because I am an adult and can think for myself, but when a woman with her profile is prepared to stand up and say what needs to be said, despite the appalling rape and death threats she receives, then I will support her, because what she’s saying is factually correct. I think you are misunderstanding the women on this forum, because we don’t need to agree with everything she says or does, because we’re adults and we can think for ourselves.

Thanks for the patronising edit by the way, that’s a real first.

Don't be silly Lady B's H. We are mere sheep who are not as intelligent as the brainiac @ThisChicPinkRaven .

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 01/09/2025 15:06

lechiffre55 · 01/09/2025 15:04

If you'll accept an unworkable definition, there already is a definition.
Anyone who says they are.

But if that's the only definition we have, both people with terrible gender dysphoria who have had gender reassignment surgery and fully intact male rapists in bad wigs are equally "genuine trans".

FlirtsWithRhinos · 01/09/2025 15:07

lechiffre55 · 01/09/2025 14:53

A few points. "Implying" sort of relies quite heavily on the reader's interpretation of what they are reading, often influenced by their own views. People often see what they want to see. Implying and inferring are two different sides of the same coin. What the author intended, and what the reader inferred during their reading.
This reminds me of Gryf Rhys Jones in the movie adaptation of Tom Sharpe's Wilt. Gryf is a murder suspect being interviewed by the hapless police inspector Mel Smith. Mel asks Griff what he was inferring when he said something. Griff replies I wasn't inferring anything, I was implying xxxxx. Griff then goes on to explain the difference between inferring and implying. Mel's police inspector ends up totally confused.

Anyway onto the meat and potatoes. Great job on the Motte and Bailey logical fallacy reference, although it would have been nice if you could have provided examples. Perhaps you could provide some of the nastier examples you have inferred from JKR's writings? Examples would help prove your point.
However one thing confuses me. You are clearly well versed on your logical fallacies, but you then go on to use one yourself.
"but the distraction from significantly more serious feminist issues such as endemic domestic violence, sexual violence, women's mental health issues & online misogyny to name a few."
This logical fallacy is called Relative Privation, or also known as the fallacy of appeal to worse problems if you want to use less fancy words.
Whenever someone has an issue with something and another person dismisses it because there are more worthy things that should in person two's opinion be considered instead. It's an attempt to distract from and dismiss the original issue. Don't look at that, look at this instead. It's an incredibly popular fallacy, second only to Strawmanning. I'm sure it must have slipped innocently past your finely honed logical fallacy filters because I doubt anyone who enjoys the words Motte and Bailey so much could be totally ignorant of Relative Privation.

While in no way disagreeing with your excellent explanation of Relative Privation, in this case it is also an example of the factual fallacy colloquially known as "talking out of one's arse" .

Imagine picking, of all things, domestic violence, sexual violence, women's mental health issues & online misogyny as examples of things JKR should be doing instead.

I guess Howie hasn't bothered finding out what the charities JKR supports to the tune of millions of pounds actually do 😂
No, angry TRAs say JKR is a wrong'un and that's good enough for Howie!

Merrymouse · 01/09/2025 15:08

Perhaps Daniel Radcliffe and Chris Columbus agree with all the MRAs who frequent MN, but if so they are remarkably coy about saying so.

They say just enough to protect to protect their images but don’t care enough about anyone’s rights to say more.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 01/09/2025 15:08

TwelvePercent · 01/09/2025 14:44

I'm SO bored of this.

So, so bored of people banging on about semantics of one frigging sentence in a massive monologue of pertinent points to distract themselves & everyone else from addressing why middle aged men belong in the showers with teenage girls. Or why a fully developed man should play rugby with women.

Address the rest of the fucking content & we'll circle back to where the comma should be.

This ⬆️

AnSolas · 01/09/2025 15:09

ThisChicPinkRaven · 01/09/2025 14:02

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not deliberately missing the point here.

On that basis, if you re-read my post and think about it you will (hopefully!) see that I have no issue with - indeed, actively support - her work for us, our right to single-sex spaces, etc. My issue is that she repeatedly and demonstrably sneers at certain groups in our society. It's ugly, unnecessary, and unwelcome.

The problem is not her own, clearly embittered, opinion about certain groups of people; it's that her very public spite is absorbed my the less enlightened among her followers and that, in turn, becomes what I can only imagine is frighteningly aggressive ideological opposition to the rights of said groups.
Again, that kind of behaviour is ugly, unnecessary, and unwelcome.

Ok

What righs do asexuals need that someone is trying to remove?

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 01/09/2025 15:11

Charabanc · 01/09/2025 15:06

Don't be silly Lady B's H. We are mere sheep who are not as intelligent as the brainiac @ThisChicPinkRaven .

I know, I was probably also punching down and using the wrong tone, being spiteful and nasty, my bad 🥴

Merrymouse · 01/09/2025 15:12

routinely implying trans people are dangerous delusional predatory sexual deviants with no associations to women.

if only she didn’t force people to send her rape threats they wouldn’t look so bad!

Charabanc · 01/09/2025 15:13

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 01/09/2025 15:11

I know, I was probably also punching down and using the wrong tone, being spiteful and nasty, my bad 🥴

Ironically you can't punch down, as you are a sheeplike cult member who is too stupid to realise they are being manipulated.

Helleofabore · 01/09/2025 15:13

lechiffre55 · 01/09/2025 14:53

A few points. "Implying" sort of relies quite heavily on the reader's interpretation of what they are reading, often influenced by their own views. People often see what they want to see. Implying and inferring are two different sides of the same coin. What the author intended, and what the reader inferred during their reading.
This reminds me of Gryf Rhys Jones in the movie adaptation of Tom Sharpe's Wilt. Gryf is a murder suspect being interviewed by the hapless police inspector Mel Smith. Mel asks Griff what he was inferring when he said something. Griff replies I wasn't inferring anything, I was implying xxxxx. Griff then goes on to explain the difference between inferring and implying. Mel's police inspector ends up totally confused.

Anyway onto the meat and potatoes. Great job on the Motte and Bailey logical fallacy reference, although it would have been nice if you could have provided examples. Perhaps you could provide some of the nastier examples you have inferred from JKR's writings? Examples would help prove your point.
However one thing confuses me. You are clearly well versed on your logical fallacies, but you then go on to use one yourself.
"but the distraction from significantly more serious feminist issues such as endemic domestic violence, sexual violence, women's mental health issues & online misogyny to name a few."
This logical fallacy is called Relative Privation, or also known as the fallacy of appeal to worse problems if you want to use less fancy words.
Whenever someone has an issue with something and another person dismisses it because there are more worthy things that should in person two's opinion be considered instead. It's an attempt to distract from and dismiss the original issue. Don't look at that, look at this instead. It's an incredibly popular fallacy, second only to Strawmanning. I'm sure it must have slipped innocently past your finely honed logical fallacy filters because I doubt anyone who enjoys the words Motte and Bailey so much could be totally ignorant of Relative Privation.

Thanks lechiffre

The relative privation fallacy is also one that is fully steeped in arrogance.

Because who the fuck has the right to expect any private person (ie. not within an organisational relationship) to give priority to that person's personal list of political aims?

lechiffre55 · 01/09/2025 15:14

@FlirtsWithRhinos
Imagine picking, of all things, domestic violence, sexual violence, women's mental health issues & online misogyny as examples of things JKR should be doing instead.

Yeah I mean it's not like she's founded and funded out of her own wizarding pockets charities that do that sort of work herself is it?
cough Beria's Place cough cough
Yeah I know I spelt Beira's Place wrong, but it's my most favourite most wildly inappropriate joke, especially in MN context.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 01/09/2025 15:14

Charabanc · 01/09/2025 15:13

Ironically you can't punch down, as you are a sheeplike cult member who is too stupid to realise they are being manipulated.

Of course, can’t believe I needed reminding about that, silly old sheep brain 🐑 baa

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 01/09/2025 15:17

Merrymouse · 01/09/2025 15:12

routinely implying trans people are dangerous delusional predatory sexual deviants with no associations to women.

if only she didn’t force people to send her rape threats they wouldn’t look so bad!

If only she, and every other pesky woman who doesn’t want creepy men in their SSS would just stop talking!! The world would be a much better place for those creepy men and they wouldn’t be so very sad, in these very sad times 🥹

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