"Give Us The Freedom To Risk Rape"

[Howseitgoin]

Famed feminist Camille Paglia's interesting views on women's freedoms:

"Yes this is probably the most controversial area that I have written about.
From the start, when I became known in the early 1990s, this has been, my views on this subject have been highly inflammatory.

And I am coming to the subject from the point of view of a 1960s women, who, as a student, when I arrived as a freshman, my first year in 1964, the college, rebelled against the strict surveillance by the college administration of the lives of the women students.

This was the period that was called 'in loco parentis', that is, 'in place of the parents'. The college administrations felt that they had the obligation to supervise, to monitor, and protect the women students as they did not the male students.

Hence we had all girl dormitories and all male dormitories. The men could come and go at any hour of the day or night. We women had to sign in at 11 o'clock at night, so that the authorities of the college knew where. And we said, my generation rebelled, and called for an end to this practice. And they said, the world is dangerous, we have an obligation to protect you against rape. And what we said was 'give us the freedom to risk rape. That is true freedom'. That is what the sexual revolution gave to women.

Now, what will women do with the freedom? Feminism should have taken my view and said that 'now, you are an equal of a man and you must protect yourself as a man would. You must see the world as dangerous as a man would.' You must be as defensive and hyper-aware of your surroundings as a man would. Because men too are attacked for all kinds of things. Men too are the victims of crime and so on.

Instead, we've had this process of women calling for protections, a new paternalism, from the government and now from the college administrations again. They want to draw the parent figures back into their sex lives. This to me, is a major major fault of contemporary feminism. There are great responsibilities that come with freedom. And one of them is that you must take responsibility for your own defense."

Seems particularly relevant in terms of today's demand for 'women's private spaces'

Thoughts?

I got shamed by the police when I reported rape, sexual assault and stalking.

I got told - by the police -that it isn’t their job to believe me.

why should I be shamed for what I did or didn’t do.

why shouldn’t he be shamed?

"You should feel ashamed at some of the insults you posted on the previous thread of yours. Your contempt for the posters of this board shone through post after post after post."

Lol, if only you could comprehend how ironical that was…

Thanks for reposting tho…😂

So I'm guessing the point you are making without initially saying it explicitly is in your last paragraph. You think trans-identified men should be allowed in women's prisons, refuges,changing rooms and toilets.

Not a wise move to try and co-opt Paglia to your side - she was TERF before it was a thing:

"Like Germaine Greer and Sheila Jeffreys, I reject state-sponsored coercion to call someone a “woman” or a “man” simply on the basis of his or her subjective feeling about it. We may well take the path of good will and defer to courtesy on such occasions, but it is our choice alone."

Camille Paglia on Transgenderism. . . . - The Center for Parent Youth Understanding https://share.google/NzQHPKSSFW8tzxduu

What would you class as a "male dominated forum"?

As you know of "many" can your provide an example to two?

I got shamed by the police when I reported rape, sexual assault and stalking.
I got told - by the police -that it isn’t their job to believe me.
why should I be shamed for what I did or didn’t do.
why shouldn’t he be shamed?

I agree victims should never be shamed & certainly am not implying that. But I get that the cops need to be neutral because they aren't judges.

Care to answer the rest of my post?

Was coming to say exactly this. My main takeaway from Paglia's "work" is that she despised all other contemporaneous feminists

Whats your problem in providing an example or two of other social media platforms?

You dont have to have posted or ID your user name.

Male shaming for his rape of a woman/man/child.

What would a "reciprocal process" involve and what shame should be attached to the victim?

I would say it is the job of the police to believe you in the first instance, or why would they investigate anything at all? It isn't the police's job to take a stance that you must be lying without any sort of investigation.

It is the job of the judge to be neutral and to assess evidence.

"So I'm guessing the point you are making without initially saying it explicitly is in your last paragraph. You think trans-identified men should be allowed in women's prisons, refuges,changing rooms and toilets.
Not a wise move to try and co-opt Paglia to your side - she was TERF before it was a thing:
"Like Germaine Greer and Sheila Jeffreys, I reject state-sponsored coercion to call someone a “woman” or a “man” simply on the basis of his or her subjective feeling about it. We may well take the path of good will and defer to courtesy on such occasions, but it is our choice alone."
Camille Paglia on Transgenderism. . . . - The Center for Parent Youth"

From your article:

"I describe myself as transgender (I was donning flamboyant male costumes
from early childhood on),"

"Though she has not transitioned, Paglia identifies as transgender.[62] She reports having gender dysphoria since childhood, and says that "never once in my life have I felt female".[63] She says that she was "donning flamboyant male costumes from early childhood on".[62]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CamillePaglia#:~:text=Though%20she%20has%20not%20transitioned,costumes%20from%20early%20childhood%20on%22.

😂

That Paglia & Greer have expressed certain positions that are in conflict with trans rights is irrelevant given their over all principles support self determination & are specifically anti nanny state.

You need to expand on this when trying to have a conversation about rape and rapists and the people they rape.

"shaming isn't a one way street."

Who (rapist/victim/other?) should be shamed?

What act or acts which the person (rapist/victim/other?) carried out should be deemed shameful?

Why did you decide the act or acts (which you deemed as shameful) should be deemed aa shameful?

'Put it away, Norman, you're not impressing anyone'.

Why do you believe that not shaming a rapist is productive?

Do you not think that shame has a social impact which can reduce the occurance of rape as people dont want to associate or be associated with rapists?

You dont quote people.

And women are being shamed for…?

What is the context of the above quoted line?

What were the women being shamed for?

"Care to answer the rest of my post?"

This part?:

"why shouldn’t he be shamed?"

I meant not shaming men as a group where most don't rather than shaming individuals who commit crimes. As far as the actual perp goes, he should be shamed & feel ashamed.

I did originally intend to pull together all the insults from OP on the previous thread, but there was just too many of them, I'd have had to cut and paste most of their posts.

@Taztoy

🌻🌻🌻🌻

OP have you failed to remember you are advocating for women and feminism on this thread?

I see.

And you had to be prodded to answer.

I watched a documentary once about Pick up Artists who practised 'negging'. There was a very self satisifed creep who considered himself an expert PUA, and he gave lessons to an assortment of sadsacks in how to insult women to destabilise them and allegedly make them vulnerable, to 'soften them up'. There were some tragic, but slightly hilarious chaps who were actually managing to be bad at it, which illustrated perfectly the type of person who would sign up to try desperately to manipulate women into interacting with them - any kind of interaction, anything at all.

Of course, the darker undercurrent to the program was that the slicker, creepier PUA was in fact selecting, picking off, and raping vulnerable women.

Some men enjoy upsetting women. Some men enjoy any kind of response at all.
Manipulating, provoking, bullying, coercing, grabbing for attention, prodding, interrupting, insulting, and if that doesn't work, brute force will do.

It all belies an abject failure to successfully find female attention. At root, I suppose it's a deep seated lack of self esteem, and self hatred which manifests as misogyny.

Luckily there are men out there who are good, thoughtful, honest, upstanding and moral men. They're not abusive, and they don't need to try and coerce women into liking them. What the PUAs fail to understand is that this is the only way to be genuinely attractive. You can't bully women into liking you. You have to go the long way round, by actually being a decent person.

This does of course require effort. Much misogyny is actually sheer lazy entitlement. But ultimately, it won't even be rewarding to have tricked or coerced or manipulated a woman into interacting with you. It's a paradox, ey? In turning a woman into a target/victim, you destroy what you had desired in the first place, and your own self worth in the process. It's a destructive, defeating, nihilistic way to go about life. Sad, really.

The police need to believe an actual crime has happened before they decide to act on behalf of the State.

They have no obligation to provide a witness with legal support but have an obligation to provide an appropiate adult and legal support to a suspect.

The police investigate crime to prove it happened they are never "neutral". Their objective is to contiue to investigate untill the either gather sufficent evidence for a sucessful prosecution or they run out of evidence to collect or run out of time due statutory limits on charging.

He’s not as fun as the mad Norwegian yesterday

quite instructive though, in case there is anyone reading who hasn’t had the penny drop yet that ‘trans’ is all sexist bullshit

No irony.

Women are not here to be of service to you in any way. When you post as you immediately did, all people have to do is read to understand your derogatory and belittling attitude toward women. Why should women interact with you in a way that you feel they should after your first posts?

I can't imagine any decent man who sees these crimes as heinous would be centering his own feelings here at all. If his take away from women naming crimes as male crimes is to make that about him and his hurt feelings, because he's a NICE man and the women talking about the crimes didnt make it clear they don't mean HIM, then he needs to grow up, get perspective and accept he's not the centre of the world.

Because we are supposed to be kind and understanding regardless of the condescension and supercilious crap being thrown at us.

A hefty enough dose of patronising superiority and we should fall over ourselves to please them.