"Give Us The Freedom To Risk Rape"

[Howseitgoin]

Famed feminist Camille Paglia's interesting views on women's freedoms:

"Yes this is probably the most controversial area that I have written about.
From the start, when I became known in the early 1990s, this has been, my views on this subject have been highly inflammatory.

And I am coming to the subject from the point of view of a 1960s women, who, as a student, when I arrived as a freshman, my first year in 1964, the college, rebelled against the strict surveillance by the college administration of the lives of the women students.

This was the period that was called 'in loco parentis', that is, 'in place of the parents'. The college administrations felt that they had the obligation to supervise, to monitor, and protect the women students as they did not the male students.

Hence we had all girl dormitories and all male dormitories. The men could come and go at any hour of the day or night. We women had to sign in at 11 o'clock at night, so that the authorities of the college knew where. And we said, my generation rebelled, and called for an end to this practice. And they said, the world is dangerous, we have an obligation to protect you against rape. And what we said was 'give us the freedom to risk rape. That is true freedom'. That is what the sexual revolution gave to women.

Now, what will women do with the freedom? Feminism should have taken my view and said that 'now, you are an equal of a man and you must protect yourself as a man would. You must see the world as dangerous as a man would.' You must be as defensive and hyper-aware of your surroundings as a man would. Because men too are attacked for all kinds of things. Men too are the victims of crime and so on.

Instead, we've had this process of women calling for protections, a new paternalism, from the government and now from the college administrations again. They want to draw the parent figures back into their sex lives. This to me, is a major major fault of contemporary feminism. There are great responsibilities that come with freedom. And one of them is that you must take responsibility for your own defense."

Seems particularly relevant in terms of today's demand for 'women's private spaces'

Thoughts?

She might not be your type of a feminist but she is brilliant.

Paglia is a stupid, offensive, disgusting person. Not a feminist. Also deeply offensive that she calls herself lesbian, but openly admits that she's Bern attracted to men since puberty & has told lesbians that not liking penis means they're immature, and that using dildos means they should like penis.

Oh, and you know she supports paedophilia? She gave an interview to the paedophilia organisation IPCE where she supported 'erotic fondling at any age' and signed a petition in defence of NAMBLA.

In fact, doesn't she sound a LOT like the TRAs she claims to oppose?

She worships men, hence her famous comment that there is no female Mozart bc there is no female Jack the Ripper. She ofc sees herself as an exception to this.

Ugh, posted twice again, sorry! I will ask MNHQ to delete...

'with more freedom comes more responsibility'

When women became fully human people, we also got rights. And those rights include being able to take part in society and life without being subject to violence, including sexual violence.

Demanding my government upholds my basic human rights, and expecting that my fellow citizens should not break the law (and be punished if they do) is not me seeking paternalistic protection. It's me expecting my society to uphold the social contract and the rights we agree we all have.

The minute women demand our rights be protected, or that we are entitled to live without violence, we're immediately belittled and infantilised by accusations of 'you just want looking after'. The response tells you a lot about the responders view of women - that they perceive women as needing/wanting protection and looking after, rather than autonomous fully human individuals demanding their rights be upheld.

If a mans home is broken into and robbed, and he calls for better policing, do people respond by telling him to take more responsibility for himself? That the freedom to own property comes with the responsibility to protect that property and he should have done more himself? Is he told to stop expecting paternalistic protection? No. Because when a male victim of crime demands society upholds the social contract, society accepts that demand as reasonable. When a female victim of crime demands society upholds the social contract, the response is to find a way to dismiss or infantilise her.

"If a mans home is broken into and robbed, and he calls for better policing, do people respond by telling him to take more responsibility for himself? That the freedom to own property comes with the responsibility to protect that property and he should have done more himself? Is he told to stop expecting paternalistic protection? No. Because when a male victim of crime demands society upholds the social contract, society accepts that demand as reasonable. When a female victim of crime demands society upholds the social contract, the response is to find a way to dismiss or infantilise her."

Look, I agree with much of your comment particularly men weaponising safytism against women. Having argued with men about this on many male dominated forums its a common exaggeration they have going that woman have 'feminised' society & made it weaker via paternalistic demands. They often give the example of the erosion of due process via public accusations (see METOO movement).

To play devils advocate for a moment, whilst I'm a supporter of METOO I think the added public denunciations where naming names without evidence or due process is an example of where paternalism goes too far & everybody suffers. Whilst I get some women have no legal recourse because proving sexual violence can be difficult, an accusatory culture sans evidence isn't helping anyone including women.

Interesting, could you give an example of the male-dominated forums you've posted on in the name of defending women's rights? How about the trans-dominated forums where you've said 'might want to tone the death and rape threats down a bit lads, if you want to win hearts and minds (and toilets)'?

Where & how I've discussed issues aren't relevant to this discussion or whether the arguments made are valid.

In fact this line of 'questioning'/purity testing is only a convenient distraction/avoidance of the points made. And we all know why that is…

Interestingly upthread commenters have suggested male shaming is necessary in curbing bad behaviour but as i suggested that's only productive if shaming is a reciprocal process.

Can't have it both ways…

Assume we don't know why that is and just tell us.

Indeed.

"Assume we don't know why that is and just tell us."

As the comment specifies, shaming isn't a one way street.

The edit to your post with mention of shaming came 2 minutes after I'd posted.

Thanks for saving me the bother of posting this. 👏

As an aside, Safeguard Force are helping to protect women and children.

https://www.safeguardforce.co.uk/?fbclid=IwVERDUAMeU9BleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHiSzTn9UvEpBw1M7N64U5W6P2Gi7nbCGAr3pSk3E3uwh0tr4FE4bH7-CgaeA_aem_uOfMA95PblxUcegjCsNrzg

Safeguard Force, a dedicated group of volunteers from Dorset, is making strides in enhancing community safety by patrolling hotspot areas, collaborating with local police, and raising awareness of their presence. While doing this insured and within the inside of the law.

Comprising over 200 volunteers from diverse backgrounds—including security professionals, ex-military personnel, first aid responders, and concerned residents—Safeguard Force is a non-political, inclusive initiative focused on protecting all community members, regardless of race or religion.

Formed to provide a visible, reassuring presence, Safeguard Force volunteers dedicate their time to patrolling areas identified as high-risk, reporting incidents, and supporting Dorset Police efforts.

The group is committed to fostering a safer environment through proactive engagement and community cooperation.

They are on Facebook -

https://www.facebook.com/share/165om4ByQM/?mibextid=wwXIfr

And women are being shamed for…?

He said ‘successful sexual assault’? Wow

haven’t seen these straight up MRA talking points for aaagggeees. Retro

As my posts state upthread in my 'shaming discussions' with other commenters I don't believe shaming anybody is productive framing. However, critiques of male behaviour perhaps won't be met with as much defensiveness if women acknowledge their own. Case in point, accusatory culture sans evidence or due process.

Might help if you read through the thread.

I’m afraid that as a result of your previous thread I have you filed under ‘tedious sexist, unlikely to say anything interesting’, and for that reason I am unlikely to read your posts with great attention

if you do want people to engage with you, you may wish to give some thought to the tone of your posts

"I’m afraid that as a result of your previous thread I have you filed under ‘tedious sexist, unlikely to say anything interesting’, and for that reason I am unlikely to read your posts with great attention
if you do want people to engage with you, you may wish to give some thought to the tone of your posts"

And yet you did:

And women are being shamed for…?

I have a very broad definition of "feminism" but Camille Paglia is so far out that she might be over the edge even for me.

And yes, you don't have to do male shit to get raped. You can wear the totally concealing clothes and stay indoors and be the best girl in the world and you can still get raped. It's one of the "freedoms" all women have, so lucky us eh?

As we used to chant back in the old days - whatever we wear, wherever we go, yes means yes and no means no. I don't think many men got the message though.

Oh I don't know! I find shaming can be productive at times. If only to alert others to what a person has done.

You should feel ashamed at some of the insults you posted on the previous thread of yours. Your contempt for the posters of this board shone through post after post after post.

Some of them are below:

Wake up useful idiots· 26/08/2025 14:21

There's a reason why gender criticals are stereotyped as irrational zealots… 27/08/2025 02.18

Trans women are four times as likely to be abused by men in their bathrooms. There's a decreased risk in women's. Comprende? 17/08/2025 03.43

Um, trans women are women so that's irrelevant. 27/08/2025 04.00

Couldn't have done it without all those dedicated cookers out there, pat on the back to my loyal dancing squirrels 🐿🐿🐿
And on my debutante outing too. AND AND I'm just warming up…. 27/08/2025 12.47

Not sure why you think we should bother reading a thread by an OP who thinks so little of us.

Who cares if critiques of male behaviour are met with defensiveness? If men have a defence against the behaviour, I'm sure we're all ears. The problem is, it's often indefensible so they attempt to divert attention from it by finding something to blame women for. And you're here asking women to do the job for them?

I agree. This is true feminism of which I align with

yes.

Anyone who posts about 'successful sexual assaults' is someone who should be shamed. Along with the posts you have snipped.

And calling posters “barely literate and chronically lazy” while going on and on about statistical significance while posting repeatedly about a statistic that was one of the most problematic conclusions I have seen.

Trans women are four times as likely to be abused by men in their bathrooms. There's a decreased risk in women's. Comprende? 17/08/2025 03.43

I mean... fuck... 369 trans people vs 435 061 people who who didn’t identify as transgender and yet, we are supposed to have thought this was some kind of font of knowledge poster? While posting bollocks from Allslop?

Yeah... I think that this poster really showed who he was very early on. Nothing different about this one. Plus ca change.