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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Iwasphotoframed · 21/08/2025 08:28

I have probably read everything Irvine Welsh has ever written, I am an huge fan and I enjoyed this article every bit as much as the rest of his work. Irvine is one of the few men who fully gets how damaging and depraved unfettered male human nature can be, it is one of his main themes. He gets it.

FlippinFumin · 21/08/2025 08:49

What a fabulous article. Thank you. Irvine Welsh truly understands it and has a great respect for women.

deadpan · 21/08/2025 09:17

Anyone have an archived link? Only like the physical cookies I can shove in my mouth

Beowulfa · 21/08/2025 10:05

Great stuff. Would have been handy if he'd spoken out at the time though?

Apollo441 · 21/08/2025 10:35

Beowulfa · 21/08/2025 10:05

Great stuff. Would have been handy if he'd spoken out at the time though?

Quite. Whilst his comments are welcome they are hardly timely. It sounds as though he has tried to ignore it but is now exasperated, possibly triggered by the treatment of John Boyne. Will he have venues pull the plug on him due to pressure from LBTQ+ staff networks? Perhaps not, he hasn't said anything in support of JKR, which is an unforgivable crime.

PestoHoliday · 21/08/2025 10:39

She got it wrong almost as many times as Boris Johnson did, but she just wasn't as big a c*.

Never change, Irvine 😁

Yesitisred · 21/08/2025 10:46

@deadpan

Irvine Welsh has slammed Nicola Sturgeon for trying to shove her trans beliefs “down people’s throats”

Welsh, 66, believes the former first minister was wrong in her attempts to allow people to self-identify as women while she was in government.

The Trainspotting author told The Record: “Sturgeon was out of step on what people felt about trans debate.

“It was a fringe issue on which she had an obscure and contentious view that she tried to force down people’s throats.

He said: “Something that should be a fringe issue was allowed to leak right into the whole independence debate. Basically, it's nothing to do with it at all.

“The idea of the independence movement was to live as an independent nation and be a model of how things should be.

“To do that you need to pick the issues that can pull people along with you, issues that mean people are going to be to your side.

“She was out of step with what people feel and believe in the way that social engineers always are.”

Sturgeon oversaw the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill that was passed by MSPs with cross-party support in December 2022.

The ‘self-ID’ legislation was designed to streamline the process for people to obtain a gender recognition certificate – the official route to changing one’s legally recognised sex.

The Bill was blocked by then-Scottish secretary Alister Jack with a never-used-before Section 35 order.

Then, in April, the UK Supreme Court ruled that a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law.

The case marked a major victory for gender critical campaigners over the Scottish government.

Welsh said: “I’m against racism and sexism and homophobia and I'm pro-everybody living the life that they want to live, but you should trust people and trust society to get to these conclusions on its own. in their preferred gender.

Last week, she admitted that she was “partly” to blame for the debate on gender recognition laws in Scotland losing "all sense of rationality" and that she should have “taken a step back”.

Welsh said: “You want genuine trans people to live the best possible life that they can.

“But you don't want it to be at the expense of the rights of 50% of the population.

“You want women to determine what they feel is their arena, their spaces.

“I don’t like talking about the trans issue. I’m not transsexual and I’m not a woman.

“But a lot of women who are demonised and called TERFS that I've spoken to have got a lot of time for genuine transsexual people, for men who are genuine about trying to change their sex and live as a woman.

“But what they don't have time for is gender ideologists telling them what they should be thinking about the construct of life, and young kids acting out basically in the way that kids do and the way we all do in different ways to get attention.

“The women's movement is too important for that.

“It's too fundamental because I think the future of humanity is basically the future of women, because I think that the emotional intelligence of women is the thing that's going to save the world.”

After stepping down from her role as first minister, Sturgeon had continued to defend her political legacy, including controversial gender self-ID plans. She also claimed trans rights abuse had forced her to quit as FM.

Asked whether he believes Sturgeon’s views alienated people, Welsh added: “She was the worst of both worlds. She didn’t appease anybody and that was a shame because Sturgeon was one of the better leaders.

“So I don’t know what her legacy is, and I don’t particularly care.

“She was one of the more personable and approachable and real people.

Lottapianos · 21/08/2025 10:50

'You want genuine trans people to live the best possible life that they can.
“But you don't want it to be at the expense of the rights of 50% of the population.
“You want women to determine what they feel is their arena, their spaces.'

Wow. Brilliant stuff Irvine. What a refreshing change from the clueless shrugging from most men

MsPavlichenko · 21/08/2025 10:51

Apollo441 · 21/08/2025 10:35

Quite. Whilst his comments are welcome they are hardly timely. It sounds as though he has tried to ignore it but is now exasperated, possibly triggered by the treatment of John Boyne. Will he have venues pull the plug on him due to pressure from LBTQ+ staff networks? Perhaps not, he hasn't said anything in support of JKR, which is an unforgivable crime.

He has spoken out before, in fact over a number of years.

He specifically spoke in support of JKR in January 2024 to the Independent, possibly previously.

fromorbit · 21/08/2025 10:53

Welsh has said similar before and I applaud him for it. He stood up for JKR when most people in the literary world did nothing. This from 2024
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/irvine-welsh-jk-rowling-trans-rights-b2567714.html

Only note he is not going to get any of his books banned as would happen if he was a woman author.
No-one is going to be denouncing tv adaptions of his books.
The National Library of Scotland is not going to take him out of exhibitions.
No one is going to kick up him out of an award contest like John Boyne.

His views on trans stuff have been clear for years. No penalty for him at all. Look at any of the reviews for his latest successful book this year Men In Love and note that his "controversial" position that women exist is NEVER mentioned.

Famous straight men can say whatever they want about gender and virtually nothing will happen. Most choose not to so I am going to give Welsh real credit for standing up for reality and for women. It isn't as if he is some kind of conservative either he just sees right through the nonsense.

I can totally understand a women creator being scared and refusing to speak up. When people write the history of this era the fact most famous men pretended nothing was happening when they can speak up if they want will look absurd.

Trainspotting’s Irvine Welsh weighs in on trans debate and JK Rowling

Scottish author reportedly ‘loathes’ the treatment of Harry Potter author Rowling after her controversial comments about trans rights

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/irvine-welsh-jk-rowling-trans-rights-b2567714.html

StrandedInJune · 21/08/2025 10:54

So how does he get away with it? How come he hasn’t been canceled? What gives?

Iloveshihtzus · 21/08/2025 11:43

Well I’m not sure he’s really one of us - I mean he believes people can change sex according to that article. And he believes that we will eventually get to a place where genuine trans people are accepted. What on earth is a genuine trans person? If anything, this fight has made me more black and white than ever.

fromorbit · 21/08/2025 12:21

Iloveshihtzus · 21/08/2025 11:43

Well I’m not sure he’s really one of us - I mean he believes people can change sex according to that article. And he believes that we will eventually get to a place where genuine trans people are accepted. What on earth is a genuine trans person? If anything, this fight has made me more black and white than ever.

Welsh is still being too nice for sure. He doesn't see through the whole thing. Lots of us peak gradually. That is normal.

However the CRAZY thing is he is still more sane and has more guts than most influential people to say what he said.

That is how low the bar is.

A huge number of people secretly think JKR and all the other amazing women are right, BUT will never ever say anything.

ArabellaScott · 21/08/2025 12:28

I think that the emotional intelligence of women is the thing that's going to save the world.

Fuck me, no pressure.

RandomlyGeneratedTriad · 21/08/2025 12:47

ArabellaScott · 21/08/2025 12:28

I think that the emotional intelligence of women is the thing that's going to save the world.

Fuck me, no pressure.

That part of the article really annoyed me. Identifying women as the locus of virtue is just another instance of the male gaze - men projecting their desires onto women and forgetting that we are as real and multifaceted as they are.

Yeah, it makes a nice change for them to project all the virtues onto us instead of their sexual fantasies. But it is still an imposition. Just like the Victorians - and others - who call their daughters Charity, Patience, Hope, Joy, etc - they are legislating a confining selfhood for us.

SirChenjins · 21/08/2025 13:37

I'm quite happy for the women with emotional intelligence to save the world - but the people in power who have no emotional intelligence need to fucking stop putting concrete rainbows and men's feelzey landmines in our way.

Apollo441 · 21/08/2025 14:18

MsPavlichenko · 21/08/2025 10:51

He has spoken out before, in fact over a number of years.

He specifically spoke in support of JKR in January 2024 to the Independent, possibly previously.

Edited

I stand corrected. As someone else said, just as well he isn't a woman or gay or the gender taliban would be after him too.

Charabanc · 21/08/2025 14:22

StrandedInJune · 21/08/2025 10:54

So how does he get away with it? How come he hasn’t been canceled? What gives?

He's too big to cancel. Just like JKR. But he's even fightier than her.

“Don’t start telling people what a man is and what a woman is when you don't even know yourself.”

You love to see it.

PestoHoliday · 21/08/2025 14:49

Beowulfa · 21/08/2025 10:05

Great stuff. Would have been handy if he'd spoken out at the time though?

He did speak out, on more than one occasion, and defended JKR each time.

Lottapianos · 21/08/2025 15:15

RandomlyGeneratedTriad · 21/08/2025 12:47

That part of the article really annoyed me. Identifying women as the locus of virtue is just another instance of the male gaze - men projecting their desires onto women and forgetting that we are as real and multifaceted as they are.

Yeah, it makes a nice change for them to project all the virtues onto us instead of their sexual fantasies. But it is still an imposition. Just like the Victorians - and others - who call their daughters Charity, Patience, Hope, Joy, etc - they are legislating a confining selfhood for us.

I know what you mean - that pissed me off too. I hate when women are described as strong / amazing / nurturing etc. We're not a hive mind, we're all messy complex individuals just like men are. All we have in common with each other is female biology

Plasticwaste · 22/08/2025 22:52

Don't get him at all.

He stuck up for JKR a few years ago, then he started taking aim at us - maybe in response to the poor reception of his troon telly show?

He seems like a big believer in trutrans. Troonery pops up a lot in his writing, and it's not as if I've been deliberately seeking it out.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 22/08/2025 23:44

ArabellaScott · 21/08/2025 12:28

I think that the emotional intelligence of women is the thing that's going to save the world.

Fuck me, no pressure.

Just not women like Nicola Sturgeon.

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