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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The 'progressive left' - a vent.

56 replies

CassOle · 16/08/2025 18:55

Run Away GIF

Arrrrgggggggghhhhhh!

No, I don't want to join the Omnicause, thank you.

OP posts:
ACynicalDad · 16/08/2025 19:05

I hear you

SmugglersHaunt · 16/08/2025 19:06

Me either! But I increasingly feel like I’m in the French Resistance. Can only air my opinions in secret

CassOle · 16/08/2025 19:09

Solidarity to all those who have to bite their tongue all the flaming time around those who are so intolerant of other opinions.

OP posts:
Britinme · 16/08/2025 21:13

I hear you! In my community to voice any opinion publicly that doesn't align with TWAW makes you a pariah. Amazing how many people think differently behind closed doors though.

arethereanyleftatall · 16/08/2025 21:15

I used to be a total leftie when I was 20s/30s. They are currently utter loons with all these ideals which ‘other people’ can accommodate. My worry is - were they always?!?

ThatZanyFatball · 16/08/2025 21:24

arethereanyleftatall · 16/08/2025 21:15

I used to be a total leftie when I was 20s/30s. They are currently utter loons with all these ideals which ‘other people’ can accommodate. My worry is - were they always?!?

In the states, where we frustratingly have only 2 parties, I was drawn to the Dems bc they didn't have a dogma. The dogmatic ones were the Republicans, with their literal purity pledges, moral majority, religious fundamentalism, and every GOP politician having to idolize Ronald Regan. The Dems had people of all religions and didn't force all their politicians or voters to adhere to a single orthodoxy like the right did. That to me was the difference not what they were selling but how they were selling it. Now the Dems are just as fundamentalist, intolerant, and dogmatic as the right just about different things. The first time I heard the phrase "no debate" I knew I was politically homeless.

shuggles · 16/08/2025 21:31

Britinme · 16/08/2025 21:13

I hear you! In my community to voice any opinion publicly that doesn't align with TWAW makes you a pariah. Amazing how many people think differently behind closed doors though.

You know, there's a lot more to "the left" than the trans debate.

For example, how they are seemingly supportive of migrants crossing the channel in rafts, even though the whole operation is clearly an example of human trafficking and a disgusting abuse of human rights, and a lot of creeps are getting rich off the back of this.

Or how they turn a blind eye to sexism and sexual abuse among ethnic minority groups.

Britinme · 16/08/2025 22:26

ThatZanyFatball · 16/08/2025 21:24

In the states, where we frustratingly have only 2 parties, I was drawn to the Dems bc they didn't have a dogma. The dogmatic ones were the Republicans, with their literal purity pledges, moral majority, religious fundamentalism, and every GOP politician having to idolize Ronald Regan. The Dems had people of all religions and didn't force all their politicians or voters to adhere to a single orthodoxy like the right did. That to me was the difference not what they were selling but how they were selling it. Now the Dems are just as fundamentalist, intolerant, and dogmatic as the right just about different things. The first time I heard the phrase "no debate" I knew I was politically homeless.

I'm in the USA too and this is also my experience. There seems to be no room for nuance or for compromise. I wouldn't vote for Trump under any circumstances but I'm struggling to find a Democrat who isn't embracing the unthinking left.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 17/08/2025 06:55

No to the Omnicause from me as well, they left seem to have turned into the everything, everywhere, all at once party. The right has collapsed and there's nothing in the centre that is palatable either.

I do think it's part of the plan though, in order to build their Utopia, they first must destroy what already exists, the modern world, that's why the philosophy under pinning all of the batshit craziness is called 'post' modernism.

They stupidly think that if they tear it all down they'll be the ones who will be rebuilding, it hasn't occurred to them that something else will get there first, and what gets built on top of the pile of rubble will likely see them first up against the wall.

It's why we're dealing with stupid not evil, it's not like we haven't been here before-

"The impression one gains is not so much that stupidity is a congenital defect, but that, under certain circumstances, people are made stupid or that they allow this to happen to them. " - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Fizzer5 · 17/08/2025 08:10

When I was younger the entry-level belief was Nuclear Disarmament, every one wore the CND badge. After that you could choose your personal way of weirdness.
Now it's Trans which to me it seems so fucking trivial in comparison to the Bomb!

Sausagenbacon · 17/08/2025 08:26

The great thing about being a post-menapausal old bag is that I enjoy disagreeing with people and, living in one of the naicer bits of Bristol, I have plenty of opportunity.

PistachioTiramisuLimoncello · 17/08/2025 08:30

I mean it’s better than the other extreme. But I hear you op.

Rubidium · 17/08/2025 13:24

I imagine Michael from this week's Dining Across The Divide in The Grauniad would nod along to this thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/aug/17/dining-across-the-divide-michael-sophia

Sausagenbacon · 17/08/2025 14:12

Yes, the woman he was paired up with sounds awful.

Britinme · 17/08/2025 16:52

I am Facebook friends with a couple of true believers on the whole trans issue, and one of them just shared this post. Frankly, life feels too short to break it down, knowing that it will make no impact on their thinking, but this is exactly the sort of thing the 'progressive left' is touting, which is why I have a problem with them:

Daniel Lismore

My response to JK Rowlings dishonest essay - J.K. Rowling Is Wrong. And Here’s the Truth.
By someone who’s read the science, lived in this world and seen through the tricks.
J.K. Rowling wants you to believe she’s being silenced. That she’s the brave voice of reason. That by standing up for “biological sex,” she’s defending women. But I’ve read her essay. I’ve studied her claims. I’ve looked at the science and the impact. Here’s the truth:
Her arguments are dishonest. Her concerns are inflated. Her legacy is not empowerment. It’s erasure.
Let’s break it down.
Rowling says sex is real. Nobody is denying that. Biology is real. But so is the complexity of it. Sex isn’t the neat binary she imagines. Intersex people exist. Chromosomes vary. Hormones, secondary characteristics, and anatomy don’t always align. She paints the world in two colours because she’s scared of the truth. Biology is messy. Gender is more than parts.
She says trans people using the toilet is a threat. But the data says no. When Massachusetts allowed trans inclusive public accommodation, nothing changed. No increase in crime. No spike in assaults. The only thing that rose was safety for trans people who could finally pee without fear. You know who gets assaulted in bathrooms? Trans people. Especially when they’re forced into the wrong ones. Rowling doesn’t care about that. She only sees fear. Not facts.
She mocks phrases like “people who menstruate” as if public health should cater to her comfort instead of saving lives. That language exists so trans men and non-binary people don’t get shut out of menstrual care. It doesn’t erase women. It widens the door. She wants the world to be smaller so she can feel big.
She drags out “rapid onset gender dysphoria” as if it’s a diagnosis. It’s not. The one study that coined the term was debunked and discredited. It was based on angry parents on Reddit, not on clinical interviews with the actual young people it judged. Every major medical body from the Endocrine Society to WPATH rejects it. But Rowling keeps repeating it because it sounds scary. Because if you say “social contagion” enough, people stop asking what the evidence says.
She says youth care is dangerous. In reality, puberty blockers are reversible and well-studied. The best data shows they improve mental health in trans adolescents. Delay is the danger. Denial is the harm. Suicide rates are higher in kids who get refused care. If Rowling cared about protecting young people, she’d read the literature. She hasn’t. Or worse, she has, and she’s ignoring it.
She says people regret transition. But most don’t. Regret rates after gender-affirming surgery are tiny around one percent. And most people who detransition do so because of outside pressure, family rejection, or losing their job or housing. Not because they were “never trans.” She knows that. But it doesn’t serve her story.
She says trans women in prison endanger others. But trans women placed in men’s prisons are far more likely to be raped or assaulted. The U.S. Supreme Court acknowledged that decades ago. She says she’s protecting women. But she ignores the ones in danger when her logic is followed.
She says trans women in sport are unfair. But the science isn’t on her side. Hormone therapy reduces muscle mass and strength. The effects vary by sport. That’s why most sports bodies are tailoring rules because the truth isn’t black and white. She doesn’t want nuance. She wants fear.
She says she’s fighting for women’s rights. But most women’s rights organisations the ones who actually work with victims, survivors, mothers, daughters support trans people. Because inclusion doesn’t cause harm. Exclusion does.
She says she’s just asking questions. But every question comes with a body count. Every “concern” she raises shows up in a bill, or a bathroom ban, or a protest sign at a hate rally. Her words aren’t neutral. They travel. They fuel violence. They validate bigots. She says she’s protecting freedom. But she’s building cages.
Let’s not be polite about this. The woman who once gave the world a story about love defeating hate is now building her legacy on fear. She has aligned herself with grifters, hate groups, and right-wing opportunists who don’t care about women, don’t care about children, and don’t care about anyone but themselves.
Let’s be very clear:
She has become a hero to the exact kind of men who used to burn our books and beat us in the street.
She’s joined the ranks of Milo Yiannopoulos, Caitlyn Jenner, Andrew Tate, Katie Hopkins, and everyone else who cashed in by throwing their own community under a bus.
She’s not standing up for women. She’s standing on trans people to lift herself up.
To the LGB people backing her, shame on you. Every one of our queer heroes from the past would be ashamed of you. Every one of today’s queer heroes you secretly obsess over and jerk off to would spit in your face. You didn’t learn pride. You learned proximity to power.
You call yourselves brave. You’re not brave. You’re comfortable. You’re safe enough now that you think you get to decide who deserves rights. You don’t.
You say trans people are the problem. But all the science, all the data, all the lived experience says otherwise. The only consistent danger is the one created by exclusion, stigma, and hate. The only cultural threat is the one posed by people who think acceptance should have a gate and a bouncer.
You’re not protecting women. You’re hurting people. You’re not speaking for the silenced. You are the loudest voice in the room, punching down.
If you cared about women, you’d fight domestic violence. You’d fund shelters. You’d dismantle the systems that hurt all women, cis and trans every single day. Instead you chose to go after one of the most marginalised groups on the planet. You chose cruelty. You chose the Daily Mail over decency.
You chose to be remembered like this.
And we will remember.

Key Sources:
Bathroom safety: Hasenbush et al., Williams Institute
Youth care and mental health: Turban 2020, Tordoff 2022, WPATH SOC8, Endocrine Society 2024
Regret and detransition: Bustos 2021 meta-analysis
Prison data: Farmer v. Brennan, US Bureau of Justice Statistics
Menstruation and inclusive language: UN and APA guidance
Sport and fairness: British Journal of Sports Medicine

CassOle · 17/08/2025 19:01

I wonder just how these authoritarian types managed to get their families pussy-footing around them? Everyone is held over a barrel - the threat is one of estrangement - so no one wants to upset the PL person in the family. Yet the PL person can behave appallingly, leave people in tears and 'educate' them at every engineered opportunity. I would tell them to sod off until they have grown up, but it isn't just me that would be affected. I'm there, right in the middle, and I still don't understand just quite how it happened. I guess words with the 'isms' and 'ists' have power, and the PL person wielded these lies with impunity - well, they are on TRSOH after all...

OP posts:
idontknowhowtodreamyourdreams · 17/08/2025 20:46

Many people in my world who are on the "liberal left" are amongst the most illiberal people ai know.

Abhannmor · 18/08/2025 08:04

The whole Progressive Left is a misnomer. I'm an actual leftie and seem to be getting more so each day. That is I would like to ' improve the material conditions of the working class' , which the Labour Party used to exist for.

Material. Jobs , houses , schools , hospitals , transport, the environment. Improve their conditions ; not lecture them with absurd psychobabble. I first marched for gay rights in the 70s. I think some of the people on that march are now in LGB Alliance. They fought so hard against intolerance and ignorance - and now they're having to do it all again.

hholiday · 18/08/2025 08:10

I guess I see the whole thing as a middle class colonisation of working class voices. So a lot of the 20th century was about the working class coming to the fore - in politics (the creation of the labour party), in the arts (kitchen sink dramas/ the 60s revolution etc). But now social mobility has stalled and the old ties - which centred around communality, trade unions etc - have been broken. The voices of ordinary people are no longer at the heart of liberal left politics and instead you have lots of very privileged and powerful people trying to claim victimhood for themselves. It’s very, very faddy- almost like the fashion industry… this week the environment, next week trans rights etc. And while I remain broadly supportive of left- wing policies, the shallowness of all this does my head in!

Abhannmor · 18/08/2025 08:33

@hholiday . Very good point about the end of social mobility. Actual working class people could succeed in the worlds of film , music , media back in the 60s x 70s. It's much harder now to break through the class barrier.

I recall Trevor Phillips saying ' people who talk about the Class struggle are in a time warp'. Although he was quite into identity politics and utilised race in his contest with Ken Livingstone for the Mayorship. But then he ran afoul of the gender extremists. It's hell out there Trev!

Keeptoiletssafe · 18/08/2025 09:49

She says trans people using the toilet is a threat. But the data says no. When Massachusetts allowed trans inclusive public accommodation, nothing changed. No increase in crime. No spike in assaults. The only thing that rose was safety for trans people who could finally pee without fear. You know who gets assaulted in bathrooms? Trans people. Especially when they’re forced into the wrong ones.

@Britinme Your friend is wrong.

It’s good she gave me a new source but annoying it’s American, is of low scientific quality, biased and misinterpreted its own results. It’s not statistically valid.

If good U.K. designs are used, all people are safer using the single sex toilets for the sex that they are. It is irresponsible saying otherwise, particularly given one of the researchers specialisms.

hihelenhi · 18/08/2025 10:22

hholiday · 18/08/2025 08:10

I guess I see the whole thing as a middle class colonisation of working class voices. So a lot of the 20th century was about the working class coming to the fore - in politics (the creation of the labour party), in the arts (kitchen sink dramas/ the 60s revolution etc). But now social mobility has stalled and the old ties - which centred around communality, trade unions etc - have been broken. The voices of ordinary people are no longer at the heart of liberal left politics and instead you have lots of very privileged and powerful people trying to claim victimhood for themselves. It’s very, very faddy- almost like the fashion industry… this week the environment, next week trans rights etc. And while I remain broadly supportive of left- wing policies, the shallowness of all this does my head in!

Agree, class is absolutely key. The "left wing" political class at the moment, extremely middle class, appears to be living in a completely parallel universe to the rest of the country, and is every bit as tribal. Often very self-referencing, appears to see the working & lower middle classes are "them" (uneducated plebs who at best need educating into righteousness, although of course, the most middle class lefties will often trip over themselves to find ways of somehow "identifying" themselves as working class). And infuriatingly fails to really listen or even find alternate ways of addressing the same material problems people say they're having again and again, carrying on repeating the same mistakes and never actually doing or offering anything different. Even with Corbyn's new party (eg Zara Sultana, trans champion), it's like "oh god, you're STILL not getting it, are you?" Another missed opportunity and all it will do is hand power to the likes of Reform and most still don't seem to understand why. It's infuriating.

PistachioTiramisuLimoncello · 18/08/2025 23:07

Abhannmor · 18/08/2025 08:04

The whole Progressive Left is a misnomer. I'm an actual leftie and seem to be getting more so each day. That is I would like to ' improve the material conditions of the working class' , which the Labour Party used to exist for.

Material. Jobs , houses , schools , hospitals , transport, the environment. Improve their conditions ; not lecture them with absurd psychobabble. I first marched for gay rights in the 70s. I think some of the people on that march are now in LGB Alliance. They fought so hard against intolerance and ignorance - and now they're having to do it all again.

Quite

PistachioTiramisuLimoncello · 18/08/2025 23:14

Rubidium · 17/08/2025 13:24

I imagine Michael from this week's Dining Across The Divide in The Grauniad would nod along to this thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/aug/17/dining-across-the-divide-michael-sophia

Jeeze why fid they pair her with someone twice her age?!
She seems intense.

PistachioTiramisuLimoncello · 18/08/2025 23:15

Britinme · 16/08/2025 21:13

I hear you! In my community to voice any opinion publicly that doesn't align with TWAW makes you a pariah. Amazing how many people think differently behind closed doors though.

Oh there’s lots of us… of the original left.