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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Virgin Active update their T&C to explicitly state members must use changing spaces that reflect biological sex. Wording is very clear. "By Law" (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

95 replies

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 15/08/2025 14:46

https://www.virginactive.co.uk/the-legal-stuff/club-rules

"By law, our members and visitors who use a changing room marked as ‘male’ or ‘female’ must select the one that matches their biological sex.
Our unisex and single-occupancy facilities can be used by everyone, and we are updating our signage to ensure these spaces are clearly marked and easy to find."

I assume there will be a lot of these changes happening in the very near future, and the guidance is about to arrive if we are lucky. Do not think Virgin would put their head above the parapet on their own.

Our Club Rules & Policies | Virgin Active

We want to make sure everyone is comfortable here, so we've got some basic club rules to help make the most of your experience.

https://www.virginactive.co.uk/the-legal-stuff/club-rules

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 15/08/2025 14:48

Good.

(but not sure why you've changed sex to gender in your title!)

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 15/08/2025 14:50

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 15/08/2025 14:48

Good.

(but not sure why you've changed sex to gender in your title!)

Oh shit bags. Sorry everyone I promise I am not a fuckwit and I know the difference!

If anyone knows how to change it... otherwise I will get 15 accusations in the next hour :D

OP posts:
EweSurname · 15/08/2025 14:51

Owen Jones predictably overreacts and misses the fact that facilities are available
to all

edited to add: transpeople wouldn’t need to “out” themselves as they can use unisex and single-occupancy facilities

Virgin Active update their T&C to explicitly state members must use changing spaces that reflect biological sex. Wording is very clear. "By Law" (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)
BendoftheBeginning · 15/08/2025 15:00

Didn’t someone the other day suggest men’s toilet signs be updated to state “Dolls protected here”? Maybe something like that can be sent to Owen. I’m sure he and many other male trans allies would get a lot of satisfaction from setting up a service to help transwomen use the men’s toilets safety.

SirBasil · 15/08/2025 15:10

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 15/08/2025 14:50

Oh shit bags. Sorry everyone I promise I am not a fuckwit and I know the difference!

If anyone knows how to change it... otherwise I will get 15 accusations in the next hour :D

Edited

report your own post and ask MN to change it for you

BundleBoogie · 15/08/2025 15:21

EweSurname · 15/08/2025 14:51

Owen Jones predictably overreacts and misses the fact that facilities are available
to all

edited to add: transpeople wouldn’t need to “out” themselves as they can use unisex and single-occupancy facilities

Edited

Reading comprehension is clearly not his forte 🤣

What’s wrong with the well signposted unisex or single occupancy spaces Owen?? Are they not good enough for trans people?

SternJoyousBeev2 · 15/08/2025 15:26

I couldn’t have more contempt for Owen Jones. He’s a loathsome, woman hating turd.

Hopefully this will be the start if more businesses deciding that they gave no choice but to follow the law.

SerendipityJane · 15/08/2025 15:46

As the lawyers fly back to the UK from their summer breaks, this should speed up.

"Having a policy" is the first line of defence for any organisation that is averse to being taken to court or a tribunal. It's the legal version of Domestos. Kills 99.9% of whines dead.

outofdate · 15/08/2025 16:31

Yesyesyesyesyes. More great news for women.

cariadlet · 15/08/2025 16:36

It took them long enough but great that they got there in the end.

ArabellaScott · 15/08/2025 16:54

Well done, Virgin.

Sensible, clear, follows the law. And is generous and fair towards those who do not wish to use the facilities for their sex.

ArabellaScott · 15/08/2025 16:55

Oh.

They had to be threatened with legal action.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/virgin-active-brings-policy-in-line-with-law-after-threat-of-legal-action/

FFS

'The fitness group acted after a threat of legal action by GB News presenter Michelle Dewberry, with support from human-rights charity Sex Matters.
Solicitors acting for Ms Dewberry sent a legal letter to the gym chain threatening to bring a claim under the Equality Act about the chain’s policy of “trans inclusion”, which allowed any man who claims to identify as trans or non-binary into the women’s changing room.
Dewberry had complained to the gym chain after she encountered a man dressed in women’s clothing when she was changing in the women’s changing room of her local gym in February 2025. She was shocked and surprised, and felt vulnerable and uncomfortable.

ArabellaScott · 15/08/2025 16:59

'Virgin said that it had previously “allowed our members to use the changing rooms of the gender in which they present and identify” based on “our earlier understanding of the interpretation of the Equality Act 2010 (the EqA) together with the Gender Recognition Act 2004.” This was “in line with guidance provided by UK Active, the industry body for gym providers in the UK, and has been adopted by many other gym and leisure providers in the UK as well as a wide range of service providers in other sectors.”'

All eyes on UK Active, then.

https://www.ukactive.com/ehrc/

'In the interim period, we recommend that facility operators manage situations on a case-by-case basis, acting with sensitivity and understanding to continue to ensure all customers are treated with dignity and respect, and are supported while policies are under review. The EHRC states that employers and other duty-bearers must follow the law and should take appropriate specialist legal advice where necessary. Please refer to the interim update provided by the EHRC on Friday 25 April for further information until full guidance is provided '

Case by case, eh?

EHRC Guidance for providers of single-sex services and spaces

Following the recent release of the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) guidance on ‘Separate and single-sex service providers: a guide on the Equality Act sex and gender reassignment provisions’, ukactive wanted to share some further guidance.

https://www.ukactive.com/ehrc/

SerendipityJane · 15/08/2025 17:01

ArabellaScott · 15/08/2025 16:55

Oh.

They had to be threatened with legal action.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/virgin-active-brings-policy-in-line-with-law-after-threat-of-legal-action/

FFS

'The fitness group acted after a threat of legal action by GB News presenter Michelle Dewberry, with support from human-rights charity Sex Matters.
Solicitors acting for Ms Dewberry sent a legal letter to the gym chain threatening to bring a claim under the Equality Act about the chain’s policy of “trans inclusion”, which allowed any man who claims to identify as trans or non-binary into the women’s changing room.
Dewberry had complained to the gym chain after she encountered a man dressed in women’s clothing when she was changing in the women’s changing room of her local gym in February 2025. She was shocked and surprised, and felt vulnerable and uncomfortable.

Edited

Gawd bless the shareholders ...

In our profit-as-religion world. board decisions that can be shown to have affected a companies profitability can leave the board open to legal action for recompense. (This is how so many UK firms got bought up when a hostile bid is announced).

Presumably some compliance bod has alerted the board that no matter how the feelz look, deliberately breaking the law and being sued (with potential exemplary damages) could leave them seriously out of pocket.

Which is probably the best angle of attack moving forwards. Ignore the CEO and email the compliance team ... "Are you aware ....?"

IwantToRetire · 15/08/2025 17:10

ArabellaScott · 15/08/2025 16:55

Oh.

They had to be threatened with legal action.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/virgin-active-brings-policy-in-line-with-law-after-threat-of-legal-action/

FFS

'The fitness group acted after a threat of legal action by GB News presenter Michelle Dewberry, with support from human-rights charity Sex Matters.
Solicitors acting for Ms Dewberry sent a legal letter to the gym chain threatening to bring a claim under the Equality Act about the chain’s policy of “trans inclusion”, which allowed any man who claims to identify as trans or non-binary into the women’s changing room.
Dewberry had complained to the gym chain after she encountered a man dressed in women’s clothing when she was changing in the women’s changing room of her local gym in February 2025. She was shocked and surprised, and felt vulnerable and uncomfortable.

Edited

That's interesting.

I hope that this gets lots of media publicity, and it will send a message to other companies who think they dont need to worry about implementing guidelines on women's rights.

NeverOneBiscuit · 15/08/2025 17:22

Maya Forstater was with Michele Dewberry (who brought the original complaint against Virgin) on GB News earlier. Given Michelle has her own slot on GBN this should get lots of coverage. She’s been a great advocate for ages.

potpourree · 15/08/2025 17:33

If I understand correctly, OJ has conflated 'woman' with 'biologically female' and 'man' with 'biologically male' in his tweet - he's talking about the changing rooms being divided by biological sex, yet calling those sexes 'men' and 'women'.

He's a huge terfy transphobe to do that. Why can't he accept that the genderist position is that some men are female and some women are male? He genuinely seems unable to grasp that?

BundleBoogie · 15/08/2025 21:11

ArabellaScott · 15/08/2025 16:59

'Virgin said that it had previously “allowed our members to use the changing rooms of the gender in which they present and identify” based on “our earlier understanding of the interpretation of the Equality Act 2010 (the EqA) together with the Gender Recognition Act 2004.” This was “in line with guidance provided by UK Active, the industry body for gym providers in the UK, and has been adopted by many other gym and leisure providers in the UK as well as a wide range of service providers in other sectors.”'

All eyes on UK Active, then.

https://www.ukactive.com/ehrc/

'In the interim period, we recommend that facility operators manage situations on a case-by-case basis, acting with sensitivity and understanding to continue to ensure all customers are treated with dignity and respect, and are supported while policies are under review. The EHRC states that employers and other duty-bearers must follow the law and should take appropriate specialist legal advice where necessary. Please refer to the interim update provided by the EHRC on Friday 25 April for further information until full guidance is provided '

Case by case, eh?

Yes, this is the bit I don’t understand.

In which ‘case’ will a man believe allowed into the women’s changing room and in which case will they not?

Does the man have to have made at least some effort and out a dress on, or not? Does he have to wear a nice dress and remove his penis (not that anyone would want to ask for proof) and maybe brush his hair/put some heels on?

Does he have to ask nicely or is it the pushy, shouty ones they will let in? Does his entry permission get revoked if he doesn’t behave and starts parading around naked? What if there are two of them that want entry at the same time?

These ‘case’ assessments could be complicated.

ATowerOfGiraffes · 15/08/2025 21:43

"As a result, we are required by law to make certain changes to how we operate and manage our facilities."

Whilst it's obviously great they've (finally) come round to this, it's bloody annoying that it is done so begrudgingly and unwillingly.

Would be so much nicer if they actually said "yay we can do the right thing for women and that is supported by the law" rather than "we really wish we didn't have to do the right thing but we are being forced to by the law".

MistyGreenAndBlue · 16/08/2025 01:38

EweSurname · 15/08/2025 14:51

Owen Jones predictably overreacts and misses the fact that facilities are available
to all

edited to add: transpeople wouldn’t need to “out” themselves as they can use unisex and single-occupancy facilities

Edited

So LOJ DOES know what sex is then?
Whoodathunk?

akkakk · 16/08/2025 05:15

ATowerOfGiraffes · 15/08/2025 21:43

"As a result, we are required by law to make certain changes to how we operate and manage our facilities."

Whilst it's obviously great they've (finally) come round to this, it's bloody annoying that it is done so begrudgingly and unwillingly.

Would be so much nicer if they actually said "yay we can do the right thing for women and that is supported by the law" rather than "we really wish we didn't have to do the right thing but we are being forced to by the law".

Difficult to tell whether it was:

  • a grudging, we have been forced to do it
  • or a way of stopping complaints / people trying to persuade individual gyms it need not apply - by law makes it black and white in their company…

I suspect you are right, but hopefully it also has the latter effect as well…

SinnerBoy · 16/08/2025 05:41

I read this with interesting, presumably, the statement is to minimise howling by transw and possibly threats, vandalism and the usual activities. It's not really surprising that they needed to be forced, having read about their past, illegal policy.

On side note, if two transw went to change at the same time, would one or both complain? Would it be a matter meets antimatter scenario?

chilling19 · 16/08/2025 06:26

ATowerOfGiraffes · 15/08/2025 21:43

"As a result, we are required by law to make certain changes to how we operate and manage our facilities."

Whilst it's obviously great they've (finally) come round to this, it's bloody annoying that it is done so begrudgingly and unwillingly.

Would be so much nicer if they actually said "yay we can do the right thing for women and that is supported by the law" rather than "we really wish we didn't have to do the right thing but we are being forced to by the law".

Which is why the SC ruling is so brilliant. Annoying that they needed the ‘by law’ get out, but it clears the way.

BezMills · 16/08/2025 06:47

MistyGreenAndBlue · 16/08/2025 01:38

So LOJ DOES know what sex is then?
Whoodathunk?

Yeah he's a terf when it matters to him (like in the sheets). Just doesn't like or care for female women at all.