Trans inclusion could be “beginning of the end” for female sport - a Sport Ireland report

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

The inclusion of trans athletes in women’s events could signal “the beginning of the end for female sport”, a state body was warned.

A report commissioned by Sport Ireland on transgender participation found that the issue of trans women competing in female events was the most contentious debate among sporting bodies.

Coaches interviewed for the study were said to have “strong feelings”. The report said: “This group expressed empathy and even sympathy towards transgender individuals but typically they were even stronger advocates for keeping females involved in sport and upholding the values of fairness and safety.”

The coaches said they feared the number of teenage female participants would “drop significantly” if transgender and non-binary individuals were allowed to take part in female events.

The study, prepared by Carbmill Consulting in July 2023, reported repeated concerns about trans women using female changing rooms.

One sporting body said it had a policy where participants came dressed in their kit and went home without showering or changing.

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Fears were also raised around the participation of trans women in boxing and martial arts. The report said individuals competing in those sports were “adamant that allowing transgender women to compete against females in their sports was unsafe and possibly unlawful”. More than one interviewee told the authors that watching a trans woman in MMA [mixed martial arts] was “akin to watching footage of violence against women”.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/ireland-world/article/trans-women-sport-ireland-report-cznq2txt5

this is in Ireland, where they have full self ID and everyone is happy and nothing bad happens because of it, apparently.

Great find. I'm glad this subject is being investigated in more detail in Ireland.

For all that the country has banged on about how important women's sport is - it is disgraceful how it capitulated to the trans lobby.

The report did spare a thought for some sad men though

In interviews, transgender athletes described moves to exclude them as having left them “heartbroken, distraught, gutted and betrayed”. The report said: “Some of these were difficult to hear, and it was clear that emotions were very strong.”
It concluded that it would be difficult to find compromises, with views on both sides “polarised”.

I’m glad this report is highlighting the impact on women, but of course there always has to be a ‘sad face’ bit at the end about exclusion and hurty feelings.

I really hate the way the narrative is always about how trans people are being excluded - eh, no! They’re not being excluded, they can absolutely compete in the correct sex category for their sport. Nobody is banning them from all sport, what nonsense.

The concerns raised on the female side and shared by the trainers, coaches, volunteers etc sound much more compelling and serious than the sadface ones. But we know how these things generally pan out so I’ll be interested to see any new guidelines.

Here’s the TENI (Trans Equality Network Ireland) sport “digital inclusion toolkit” with links to individual sporting body policies

https://teni.ie/resources/sports/

Thanks Eresh.

It always feels like gaslighting when we see commentators declare that the majority of athletes, coaches etc support male people being included in female sports categories.

The more reports like this that get published, the more sunlight.

Archive link

archive.ph/J1QRY

It’s one of the issues which the public around the world overwhelmingly agree on, in a way that doesn’t favour the designs of trans rights activists.

thanks for the archive @MyAmpleSheep that’s great! I didn’t think it was paywalled at first but the second time I couldn’t access it.

Wow.

It's a mix of 'no shit sherlock' and 'ffs', isn't it?

Yes, it's dangerous to allow men to beat women for sport. Astonishing we needed a report to tell us this.

I can’t share as paywalled but this is the first line of related article in Irish Independent
“Some national sports bodies were afraid of losing government funding if they participated in a review of guidance on transgender participation in sport in Ireland. “

Woah

I mean, not surprising, but ffs

Report prepared more than two years ago. I wonder why it is leaking out now?

probably because respectable official Ireland is so conformist that it had to wait for other countries to start some pushback

PS, many many thanks to @Ereshkigalangcleg for this thread.

In interviews, transgender athletes described moves to exclude them as having left them “heartbroken, distraught, gutted and betrayed”. The report said: “Some of these were difficult to hear, and it was clear that emotions were very strong.”

It concluded that it would be difficult to find compromises, with views on both sides “polarised”.

Just play sport in the category of your sex. Simple.

'Distraught'. Jeez.

These men are starting to make me really angry.

This is so frustrating. It is because of misplaced sympathy such as this that men have been able to manipulate their way into women's sport. People shouldn't be eligible for a category they don't qualify for because it makes them sad if they are excluded. It pisses me off so much.

If this report was commissioned in 2023, why is it being reported on now? And has it been acted on? Gaelic football and camogie still allow men and boys in the female category, as far as I'm aware.

Surely they could actually manipulate that to their own advantage, though - and still maintain their narrative?

"Of course, we all 'know' that I'm a woman, but I'm so brilliant at my sport, that I can actually beat the men at it too - so I compete in the men's competitions, which I'm allowed to do on a 'vague technicality', and I still win!!"

Unless, that is, that they can't actually beat other men - in which case they need to accept that this is not one of their particular talents, and so they will have to either train harder or concede defeat.

Just like a mediocre adult of either sex can't expect to just enter the under-7s events if they aren't good enough to compete with their own peers in their own category. What actual glory would you derive from being 28 and proving that you can beat little kids?!

Where does it actually end? I'm utterly useless at sport, but even I could win the 100m and strut around smugly as the victor with my gold medal - if I decided that I (and I alone) was allowed to use a motorbike!

@BettyBooper you and me both, I nearly used a sweary word.

I hope there are conversations about this at the Camogie finals.

Yes. It's also a case study in how the imposition of transgender ideology trashes every institution it touches. Women self excluding from changing rooms and showers, leaving sports, keeping silent because of the intimidation and bullying, while volunteers and officials who've dedicated their lives to running sports because they're good people, leaving as it's scary to be threatened by zealots.

The narrative is about alleged vulnerability while the reality is more akin to a totalitarian regime.

And at the same time, TRAs merrily stating that Ireland has self id and there are no problems there.

Totally deluded.

Thanks for the link. It's good to see Ireland talking about this although I'm afraid I no longer have the headspace to do much more than shrug at hurt feelings.

It is biology that is polarised. Women's sport is for females and, as far as I'm concerned, any compromises that might be needed will have to be made by men's sport.

Very welcome that this in being taken seriously in Ireland, where the propaganda position of "self ID is fine, and there are no problems" has been pushed so hard.

I do think that for any sport where such a thing can happen safely all organisations that (correctly) are firm about having no male bodies in female competitions should have a "fun" non-competitive mixed sex stream where everyone who doesn't have a hope of winning anything can do the activity as a way of staying active. It's clearly wrong for the male body's physical advantages to be allowed to give anyone an advantage in a female competition but we are mainly a nation of couch potatoes and anyone who just wants to chuck a basketball around without getting particularly invested in winning shouldn't have all opportunities to do so taken away.

The idea that you are being somehow prevented from having something, just because you demand whatever you want NOW, is truly ridiculous.

It's such an obvious case of a group of self-important people seeking more rights than everybody else - and then audaciously complaining that they have none when they are told that they can only have their own fair share like everybody else.

My neighbour doesn't have the use of my house and I don't have the use of her house - but that doesn't mean that either of us can sit and wail that we are homeless and have absolutely nowhere warm and dry to live, because of nasty meanies deliberately depriving us of our human rights.

Perhaps Usain Bolt should have to hop the 100m so that I can participate? It’s the inclusive way!

Surely anyone who wants to play a non-competitive game can do so, anywhere, any time? Or are you saying councils, GAA etc should be making courts, changing rooms etc available for non-competitive basketball or rounders or whatever?