A small change by my local surgery - firmly asking for sex at birth

[IwantToRetire]

On one level I wish they wouldn't keep doing it but my local surgery had developed a new online form.

And these it was after name and age, they firmly ask for your sex (at birth) and explain as medical practioners they need this information not someone's gender identity.

I forgot to screen shot it, and am not saying this is the exact working but I was just amazed.

Not just that they are asking for it, but making the point that in terms of providing medical services this information is central!

I am hoping this is being used across the NHS.

Has anyone else seen or had to use anything making this bold statement about biological reality?

Have just read my op and realised I didn't spell check.

Hope it makes sense!

Perfect sense, which also seems to be returning to your surgery. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Small victories 😁, at birth as well, not 'assigned'.

I think it’s a central form used by most surgeries - I would love if this has actually happened. Off to check if ours has changed too. Unfortunately our clinical system records ‘gender’. I emailed them months ago citing the Sullivan report (as well as actual common sense and clinical concerns) and asking when they would change this and I’ve had no response.

I think it’s a central form used by most surgeries

If it is adopted across the NHS that will be great.

Not just accurate recording of data but having the statement about why this is important for those providing health services.

Hmm. I can’t get into the online form without giving all my details and I don’t want to re-register 😅. But the paper version of the form asks for ‘sex as on your NHS record’, options: male, female, intersex (wtf?) or not known. I don’t believe that anyone has ‘intersex’ as their official sex marker on medical records??

Intersex is a genuine condition. Different to trans.

Completely agree. The PRF1 form was updated as part of the response to the infected blood scandal recommendations I think. Hadn’t heard that this had changed as well re: sex

I know that. But people with DSDs are male
or female with a developmental disorder (it’s in the name!). I thought firstly that intersex was largely outdated as a term, and secondly that these individuals were still identified and recorded as male or female. I’ve never seen Intersex as a sex marker on medical records in 25 years of working as a doctor.

'Intersex' is a rather dated catch all for a bunch of sex specific conditions. Just asking someone if they are 'intersex' is useless unless there are a bunch of follow up questions.

Maybe it’s for those born outside of the U.K.? I think Germany, for example, had an indeterminate sex option for babies born with ambiguous genitalia until further testing can be done. I can’t imagine Germany has much use for that category these days but I guess if they won’t be the only country to have a third option for use while DSD’s are diagnosed.

I know this comes up a lot ("intersex"), and leads to lots of discussion, but in relation to be asked by part of the NHS to say which sex you are,the question is not about a medical condition, but about sex, so the answer will still be male or female.

Also I have no idea if my local surger is using a nationally agreed form.

From my experience they, and other parts of my local NHS, seem to buy off the shelf online forms, where it is the people creating the online form who take these decisions. Not for instance being offered a contract to create an online with specific instruction of which data to collect, and in what way.

We have a new Dr's surgery in my NZ town. The registration form asks for sex assigned at birth (male/female/indeterminate) and gender identity (male/female/another gender). I wanted to register with them but I am unable to truthfully answer these two mandatory questions.

My GP asked me for ‘sex at birth’ today when I was on the phone about my son. Definitely wasn’t the same language last time I spoke to them. Changes are afoot…..

Intersex is an outdated term for a person with a DSD. They still have a sex.

That's good news! My last interaction with the NHS was requesting my medical records (I don't live in the UK anymore) and was about a year and a half ago. One thing I remember about the online request form was it did ask for sex, but that question was accompanied that with a "Why are we asking for your sex" info box and the explanation was a ridiculous and abject apology for asking to know a patient's sex and the tone was very much "we're so deeply sorry we have to ask this incredibly offensive question, so sorry if it upsets anyone, we want to change it gender which is far more glittery and fun than boring old sex, but some big meanies are insisting that sex is still relevant to the medical profession. Please let us know if you need trauma counselling after completing this form" (I may be exaggerating but only a smidge 😆). I almost didn't continue completing the form I was so riled by this nonsense.

Not sure if the option is still available but they used "intersex" to push the German self-ID laws through. About half of Germans that I talk to about this issue think it's about people with a DSD and are incredulous when I say that the laws mean anyone can choose what sex they want to have recorded.

What happens when you tell them people can change their registered gender every year if they feel like it?

They often don't believe it. This might have changed since one of the far right politicians (I'd need to google his name) changed his sex when going to prison, that attracted a lot of attention and might have made some people realize the reality of the law change. I'm back in D later in the year I see if people are more aware.

I was asked by an online pharmacy form in a similar wording. I also noted it seems much less apologetic than these things used to.

There are two other 'gender markers' in the UK: U and I, but neither are 'advised' by PCSE. They still haven't fixed the gender v sex marker issue, but I note that you can now change your gender marker without getting new NHS number. This is an improvement in that old notes are less likely to be redacted or lost or difficult to interrogate (including safeguarding stuff) but it is still very far from ideal.

But it sounds like some sense is returning on an ad hoc basis - and surgeries are growing the gonads to publicly use that sense - which is great.

According to an article from May this year, the authorities were still trying to work out what to do with Sven/Marla-Svenja Liebich, who had lost his/her appeal and had to go to prison. But which one?

Just adding on to this old thread as last week I had the dispiriting experience of completing an on-line form for a hospital clinic I have been attending for years.

And for the first time they asked for my "gender". They had never done this before. It was always sex.

Hard to believe they would have taken this retrograde step particuluary after all the legal cases the NHS has been going through.

I didn't complete the section, but had no way of saying why.

Overall it was a badly designed form, and wondered if they had taken on some keen and thoroughly "modern" graduate as surely NHS management must have had internal memos about the difference between sex and gender.

you are such a victim omg


poor baby im so sorry you had to deal with pronouns and identity. that must be sooo hard for you. such a delicate person, idk how you could survive that

It is essential to know a patient’s sex to be able to treat them safely. Or have we all forgotten the transman whose baby died because no one thought of pregnancy?