Do we allow Sharia law in this country?

[happydappy2]

I thought we all had to abide by British Law-wtf is going on? This is bad for women...surely this isn't true
https://x.com/benhabib6/status/1949438058723528730

I'm quoting my previous post. Is CEDAW wrong?
But then what would a rascist white supremist gammon like me know about anything.

Let's ask ourselves whether an advert for an admin worker at a Jewish law Court (yes, they exist in most cities with bug Jewish populations) would generate at much hysteria and push back from the far right as its Muslim equivalent.

Yes, always use the beth dins or jews as the default whattaboutthem response to real concerns raised about real life harm to women and children. How original.

Islamic law regarding inheritance cannot be completely altered through a will to circumvent the unequal gender balance. Islamic law also doesn't allow you to have adopted children or non-muslim relatives inherit.

Muslims can write a will to distribute up to one-third of their assets to non-lawful beneficiaries.
Arrangements such as care of duty in lieu of a share of assets - who is going to enforce them?

I don't think you are right about marriages in Catholic churches. I've been to many many weddings in Catholic churches since I was a child in the 50s and I've never known anyone but the priest do the written/legal part. No idea about other places if worship.

The advert was a red herring - but it points to existence of many unofficial sharia courts in the UK that affect millions of women and children. The family laws that have been quoted are more or less standard practice from Morocco to Malaysia.

Nope Roman Catholics have local courts and higher courts in Rome with the Pope and bishops etc.

If RC canon law and local law clash a RC is expected to follow RC law first eg breaking the seal of confession would not be allowed for any reason even if its a criminal offence (eg child sex abuse reporting)
Under RC law RC can remarry if the original marraige was not a RC sacrament or if the first RC marraige was ended by an annulment.
CofE has the same problem
So local RC bishops normaly have a policy on marraige which takes account any priest being able to register a State recognised marraige etc

And marraige laws which allows same sex marraige have to have an exception to allow a person of Faith to refuse register a marraige. So Cof E who act in a Duel capacity for Church and State can not be forced to carry out a same sex marraige while State employees were removed from their role for the same refusal.

i saw a programme once where a woman based in an Islamic community centre was giving marital advice.

She was telling all the women how Islam didn't give their husbands the right to do whatever they wanted to them, she was encouraging divorced women not to see themselves as failures, telling them they had a right to be happy.

Is there any reason to think the Sharia Law advisor won't be equally strong?

Sharia ‘law’ is not law. It cannot be enforced as ‘law’ in the courts of England and Wales or in those of Scotland.

Statutory ‘laws’ become such through a process in the UK Parliament (or in the Scottish Parliament or Welsh Senedd). (Incidentally there is no such thing as ‘British law’ given the different legal jurisdictions in different parts of the UK.)

Sharia ‘law’ does not go through this process, which is why it has no more legal effect than does my regular weekly instruction to my teenage son to ‘put the bins out’. I can’t enforce that, either. (I might say ‘putting the bins out is the law of my house, dear son’- but this would be a rhetorical, dramatic use of the word ‘law’. Actual laws are something very different. )

The suggestion seen on social media that Sharia is ‘law’ is just a crude attempt to whip up people against Muslims, and relies on the fact that a significant number of people have no idea what ‘law’ is. (Of course, though, some of the people pushing this crap do know full well what actual law is, and how it is made & enforced, and that sharia is not ‘law’: those people aren’t ignorant, just sinister racist liars taking advantage of the ignorance of others to stoke fear and hatred in our country.)

I guess when you say ‘gammon’ you mean, white, working class person… bit of a racial slur isn’t it?

Iran didn’t used to have sharia law… and now it does

Afghanistan didn’t used to have sharia law… and now it does

Pakistan didn’t used to have sharia law… and now it does

Somalia didn’t used to have sharia law… and now it does

… have these places got better for women, or worse?

If you care about women’s rights you should definitely be wary of any creeping increase of Sharia law

A dead and cooked pig.
Nice.

And yes elite or not people should check if there is a suggestion that a Faith is using public funds to employ someone to give advice which results in unlawful acts or using the funding to enforce a faith pratice on someone.
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And imo the salary is not going to attract "great" legal minds who will be the first point of contact on some very important social matters.

And yes there should be hysteria and push back from everybody if the State is ratifying agreements which would not be lawful or fair acceptable outcomes if a judge was ruling on the same facts.

Statutory ‘laws’ become such through a process in the UK Parliament (or in the Scottish Parliament or Welsh Senedd). (Incidentally there is no such thing as ‘British law’ given the different legal jurisdictions in different parts of the UK.)

There is also English (yes, specifically English) common law .....

Sharia law ultimately treats women as less than men, there’s no two-ways about that.

Do we want the propagation of that value system in Britain?

Personally, I do not.

Who is suggesting it, pray tell ?

It seems like it's another way to isolate women in this country from the right's they have under the laws of this country. The courts don't have any legal standing in the UK but do the women and children who are members of the communities that use such council know that.

I find your indifference to protecting women's fundamental rights puzzling.

Firstly Sharia councils are currently operating in the UK. Many threads on women's rights and patriarchy highlight coercive control, presumably none of us are cool with that.

Young women are often pressurised by family and potential in laws [often arranged marriage] to have a Nakah ceremony. Mosque is not registered for civil marriage, so no legal protection.

Marriage is failure. Could just walk away but with nothing no rights, unable to marry again in faith.

Women are often driven to Sharia councils due to cost of legal aid.

Often forced to remain in marriage for years ' cos should be saved at all costs.

This seems a useful approach but as it's from 2016 and nothing has changed despite lots of talk I'm not holding my breath;
^Zee will launch her book at an event organised by libertarian think-tank, the Henry Jackson Society, in the Houses of Parliament on 12 January. She is calling on the British government to introduce new laws to help women access the criminal and civil courts for religious divorce, as in the Netherlands, where in 2010 Dutch-Pakistani woman Shirin Musa won a precedent-setting civil case.
There, a judge imposed damages upon Ms Musa’s husband for each day of non-compliance with the court’s ruling that he had to release her from the religious marriage. He instantly did, and in 2013 “marital captivity” became a criminal offence.^

The point is the thread title whether deliberating or unintentionally implied that Sharia "law" was part of the UK legal system.

And actually it seems the OP doesn't want to talk about the law, but the impact, which happens to many women in the many, many different cultures living in the UK, have customs and practices that dont match the presumed (but not always respected) rights of women in the UK.

So in fact given that this forum (FWR) have been able to have discussion about how the culture a woman is born into impacts on their life, it really cant be seen to be anything other than shit stirring to have manipulated that actual nub of the situation.

And as all too often in recent times on FWR this happens because a few seem obsessed by Muslim culture.

We have already had on this thread example of how women growing up in different cultures, religions have had their experience of being female impact on that. eg Gypsy, Roma and Traveller, various religions, etc..

And one of the aspects of this is if you are part of a minority community where you often experience hostility or outright racism, you may be less likely to turn to the "established" community for help.

Sadly no amount of hand wringing about how some minority cultures are more sexist than others, and of course the perfect Brit culture, if you have faced discrimination from that establishment you aren't going to value their opinion about your culture.

If you really care about whichever culture it is, is oppressing women, why not find out how the women in that community are organising, and find out how you can help. ie listen to what they would want you to do, ie not stand on your soap box and lecture them.

Have you every thought that your antogonism and arrogance actually turns some women to think that in the long run, they want to be within the network, customs of their community.

If you really care about whichever culture it is, is oppressing women, why not find out how the women in that community are organising, and find out how you can help. ie listen to what they would want you to do, ie not stand on your soap box and lecture them

I think you're the one on a soap box. I have quoted evidence from many sources including testimonies of Muslim women. I am sick and tired of Western feminists nodding through straightforward misogyny both here and abroad 'cos 'culture'.
I remember them defending FGM because we mustn't presume to question.

As usual you dont engage with what is being said but just persist with your soap box.

Nobody is nodding through anything.

But as you cant or dont want to work with the women concerned it is immaterial.

Gammon doesn’t generally refer to working class people. More often it is used to refer to well heeled, older white middle or upper class men.

No? Because Islam is a religion not a race? Dumb comment.

"It’s on the DWP website to make it look like it’s a state funded council role."

That's WHY it's on the GOV.UK website...

Sorry are you claiming that it is a state funded role?

I'm at a loss to what it is you are actually saying. You haven't engaged with any of my posts.
The title of the thread links to a specific tweet. We pretty quickly established that this country is not practising or enforcing Sharia law. However, it does accept the operation of Sharia councils, which rule on family matters that often discriminate against women.
This raises a conflict in that women's legal rights can be circumvented.
You seem to interpret any concerns about this as racism of some sort. It is not. It is a real conflict which as I've just pointed out have been dealt with by other countries. There have also been numerous parliamentary committees taking evidence from women and activists but no action.
Do you disagree with the Cedaw statement above?

If you don't like that way I post, well tough because I feel the same about your walls of text.

Very true, the women in Iran who are standing up to the regime and being killed, maimed and imprisoned for it, often lament on Social Media about the lack of support they get from Western women's right's activists.
I think the lack of attention paid to the Muslim women's organisations in this country, who are campaigning to shine a light on how these courts are to the detriment of women and children, is because criticizing Islam goes against the narrative of the left, you will accept multi-culturalism without criticism or you're banished from the world.

Its not ' far right' it's normal people not brainwashed with extreme left wing views like you.