Do we allow Sharia law in this country?

[happydappy2]

I thought we all had to abide by British Law-wtf is going on? This is bad for women...surely this isn't true
https://x.com/benhabib6/status/1949438058723528730

It’s not true! How could it be? And why would it be?

I doubt there is any society or group of people who have found the magic formula, but we need to be cautious about applying our "ways" as somehow being culturally superior. Because they aren't. They are just different.

I Agree @PhilippaGeorgiou its trying to merge the best of both traditions and try remove what is not working while focusing on what is beneficial.

Again that is, I assume why the ad asks for understanding of the UK legal system…
@PlanetJanette
But the devil would be in the details which is normally hidden in case law so imo an understanding is a low bar.

And legal marraige can have a wide impact for first ( even second) generation women (& men) eg citizenship for themselves and their children or access to public services.

The means of bringing a religious marriage to an end is a theological issue and not a legal one.

As pointed out Islamic marraige is seen as less that a C of E faith marraige as the C of E is recognised as legitimate by the State.

I wasn't going to post on here as it just seem (as said by PP) that there are some posters whose only purpose is to concoct some sort of out rage against Muslims.

But the issue is, obviously, that in the UK, UK law is the law.

However for people who also have a religious faith, and that faith has its own "courts" or tribunals, something that a UK court would allow, a faith based court wouldn't.

For instance Jewish women who want to remain part of their community but cant get a divorce. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/04/jewish-orthodox-women-divorce-get-refusal

I am sure the OP would like to start a thread about Jewish women being oppressed by their faith as of course their intention for this thread wasn't anything to do with being anti Muslim.

(I have to admit not knowing how many religions are practiced in the UK, and how many of them have their own systems re marriage and divorce, so there may well be other examples than the refusal of a "get".)

If you are going to make up crap can you try to make it funny?

This thread was not started to 'whip up hatred' or cause division. I'm actually interested in how much influence Sharia law has in this country.

The basis of UK law is primarily common law, developed through judicial decisions and precedents, combined with statute law, enacted by Parliament. The UK does not have a single, codified constitution; instead, its legal framework is a combination of these two sources.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

1. Common Law:

Judicial Decisions: Common law is built upon the decisions of judges in past cases, where their rulings establish legal principles that then guide future decisions in similar cases.

Precedent:
The principle of stare decisis (Latin for "to stand by things decided") means that courts are bound by the decisions of higher courts in the same jurisdiction.

Origin:
Common law in England and Wales originated in the reign of Henry II, when royal courts began applying uniform laws across the country, replacing local customs.

Scotland:
While Scotland also has a common law system, it's a mixed system, incorporating elements of Roman-Dutch law.

1. Statute Law:

Acts of Parliament: These are laws passed by the UK Parliament (House of Commons and House of Lords, with Royal Assent).

Codification: Acts of Parliament are a key part of the UK's "unwritten constitution".

Importance: Statutes can change or create new laws and are a crucial part of the UK legal system.

1. Key Concepts:

Rule of Law: A fundamental principle that ensures everyone, including the government, is subject to and accountable under the law.

Constitutional Principles:
Important constitutional principles, like the Magna Carta, are reflected in statutes and common law, shaping the relationship between the government and its citizens.

Separation of Powers:
While not strictly defined as in some countries, the UK has moved towards a greater separation between the judiciary and other branches of government.

Independence of the Judiciary:
Maintaining the independence of the judiciary is seen as crucial for upholding the rule of law.

NB AI compilation so may not meeting the standards of say a legal textbook.

It's for a community centre though so they'll pay for it not your taxes. It's not a DWP job but advertised on the DWP job site likeany other jobs.

Mosques can register to perform civil marriages but not all do. Why not do you think?
I'm not sure what effect that would have on the divorce system attached to Nikah marriages, after all how a marriage can be ended is just as important as the marriage ceremony.e.g.

"In Islam the term “divorce” constitutes many different types of ways a couple’s marriage is ended. Men can divorce their wives unilaterally by pronouncing talaq three times either consecutively or on three separate occasions depending on the Islamic school of thought by which the married couple abide. Once talaq has been pronounced, the wife enters what is known as the iddah period which lasts for three menstrual cycles (three months). If the husband and wife reconcile within the iddah period, the marriage continues. In the event that they have not reconciled within the iddah period, the marriage comes to an end. If the wife is pregnant, she will have to wait until the child is born before the iddah period commences. Although the husband is able to divorce his wife unilaterally without involving a Sharia council, the husband and/or the wife may apply to the Sharia council for an Islamic talaq certificate, which can be used as evidence that the couple are now divorced.
Unlike men, women cannot unilaterally divorce their husbands. There are three types of Sharia divorce following a wife’s petition: Khula, Faskh and Tafreeq. Below is an explanation of some of the terms associated with Islamic divorce."

Shame threads like this don't prompt a curiosity about Islam. Which is quite clear on what is expected of Muslims living in non Islamic countries.

Diversity from equality? Diversity from the Western approach to female rights(yes far from perfect,but think fairly obvious better than many societies round the world)

That is really quite disingenuous. I am and have always been curious about Islam which is why I know there is no single interpretation of the faith. There are different sects and attitudes to women and girls among all the other aspects of life. There is no single authority.

I'm not sure what source you're using for the expectations of Muslims living in non Islamic countries.

This statement is illogical.

And impossible to substantiate.

No, we absolutely do not have Sharia law in the UK, we have UK law, which regardless of your religious views, applies to all

Why let the truth get in the way of propaganda?

Nope sorry that first link was my error 🙈

It isn't, although you could argue that aspects of UK and European law have developed from legal codes of the Middle East - including Jewish legal codes. The same would be true of Greco-Roman legal codes. Europe has inherited and then shaped many things from earlier civilisations.

Slightly at cross purposes but I recall many years ago watching an extremely rude English couple tear into an Arabic stone mason who was carving signs for tourists - you know, tell him a name and he carved it in Arabic Script. A number of people were getting him to do the name of their house. This woman didn't have a name for her house so asked him to carve the number 7. Which he did. She then said no, she wanted 7 in Arabic. He tried to explain that he had carved 7 in Arabic as she got louder and angrier at how stupid he was, it was bloody simple wasn't it, she wanted 7 IN ARABIC!!!!!! The tour guide was trying unsuccessfully to calm her her down and to explain, but she was having none of it. In the end I walked over, told her, loudly, to shut the fuck up because only an uneducated peasant didn't know that they were called Arabic numerals because the Arabs invented the numbers used in England, and she was just demonstrating how thick she was. She didn't even pay the poor bloke for his work. I did.

Sharia Councils have been in place since the 1980's
They provide lots of advice but have no legal status but many Muslims wish to abide by their guidance.

Personal testimonies by Women on Equalities of Sharia Courts- Independent Review https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/75313/pdf/

Independent review:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a750e8040f0b6397f35d531/6.4152_HO_CPFG_Report_into_Sharia_Law_in_the_UK_WEB.pdf

“The review found evidence of good practice but also clear evidence of bad practice. Furthermore, there is unanimous agreement among the sharia courts themselves that discriminatory practices do occur in some instances within the councils in England and Wales”
“From those that gave evidence to the review panel, no one disputed that sharia councils engage in practices which are discriminatory to women.”

The answer is very little if you are talking about what most people think of as Sharia law. Sharia is really a code of conduct which provides guidance on living the Muslim life. Think of it more like an elaborate Ten Commandments and you are closer to what it entails. It is fluid and varies over time and from place to place based on different cultures and periods in history. Most people are only familiar with it in limited contexts around controversial practices like corporal / capital punishment and/ or the unequal treatment of women in certain interpretations, but these are not universally accepted, and in fact many schools of thought consider those applications to be counter to the Quran teachings. Like any text, you can make it mean what you want it to mean if you are so inclined. That is not about Islam, that is about power.

“From those that gave evidence to the review panel, no one disputed that sharia councils engage in practices which are discriminatory to women.”

English courts, of course, do no such thing. Rapists are always convicted, women are always believed, and there is parity of outcomes between men and women in all their dealings with the law.

Faith and the legal framework which evolved from it are different are they not?

I have travelled to Islamic countries and took the time to gain an oversight of the law and how Faith influences to cultural norms and if that would require me to adapt.

But in most countries ( which accept that some citizens or visitors live a "secular" lifestyle) understand the main Faith not the only Faith. So if it is important they modify the legal framework for a more equal society

And no matter where one is if one chooses to interact with people or places of faith or if one chooses to discuss someones faith with them or enter into a relationship etc. its important to be open to learning and not think that Faith is a one size fits all.

Why don’t you try reading some of the personal testimonies from the 1st link before attempting to compare them?

But it is unusual, and there is no good reason why Imam's should not, like Christian priests, be allowed to be registrants.

They are allowed to be registrants. Doesn't mean they'll want to be. Catholics are similar. I've never been to a Catholic wedding where the priest was the registrant, even though they could be.

In Scotland, a marriage can be conducted by a religious celebrant and registered at the same time as long as the correct paperwork is completed and the celebrant is authorised. So many Muslim couples have both the Nikah and the registered civil marriage at the same time. They still need to go through both an Islamic divorce for religious reasons and a civil divorce to be legally divorced.
England and Scotland have different legal systems so it doesn’t make sense to talk about Britain or the U.K. in this context.

English courts, of course, do no such thing. Rapists are always convicted, women are always believed, and there is parity of outcomes between men and women in all their dealings with the law.

But if the English do it, then it isn't as bad is it?