Why do most TIM not seem to care about their voices?

[MagicSexEssence]

TIMs seem to go to a great effort to "live as a woman" except when it comes to their voice. Like Robin White - had all the surgeries, wears stereotypically female clothes and jewellery, makeup, hairstyle, insists on using women's facilities. But the voice...unmistakably male. I have used Robin as an example as Robin's voice is quite familiar to a lot of us but it seems a common presentation across the board.

I don't get it. If you are so dysphoric and endangered using the male facilities then why does your male voice not make you equally as dysphoric and in danger of being "outed" (lol).

I know that this post is preaching to the choir and that there is no sensible answer to this. Is it laziness? Voice training, as I understand, takes a huge amount of time and effort. Or is it fear of feeling silly? Clearly when TIM look in the mirror they don't see a "man in a dress" but, perhaps, if they try and raise the pitch of their voice they hear one.

It's always seemed to me that men who want to be women don't actually want to be women, they just want to look like women. So they don't alter their voices for the same reason as they don't alter their attitude to behave more like women.

Is it about power? Wanting to maintain power over women in single sex spaces or maintaining their power and male status in the workplace?

That's nicely put.

It’s much more difficult! You can add bits on, and lop bits off, you can even (🫣) have bits saved off your jawbone, but the way that the voice is produced is far more intrinsic, it’s to do with resonance as well as pitch, though that is a bit easier to control. More like hands and feet, and shoulder width, than secondary sexual characteristics, let alone clothing and makeup.

I expect someone with a speech therapy background can explain this much better than a few cloudy recollections from Soeech and Drama qualifications decades ago!

White has told posters on FWR years ago that they recognise the power of White's voice is useful in court.

I think that neatly encapsulates your question OP.

Power.

Yes. it is.

We had this told to us directly by someone who said they decided against surgery on their vocal chords. Because that person needed the 'power' of their voice in court.

It really was an enlightening moment to have that confirmed.

What's a Tim? Please as I genuinely don't know.

Trans identifying male.

Did he talk about that on women's hour too? I have a vague memory of him doing a parody female voice.

Sorry, I should have made that clearer. I don't think I can edit.

Thank you I really find all the acronyms head bursting at times.

Despite all the coaching and care to sound laydeelike, it can and does drop out. It's a bit like when British actors coach themselves in an American accent which can be very effective, however when the voice is raised to shouting level its much harder to maintain and reverts back to the original accent.

OP, have you seen the video done by one of the auditors/citizen journalists that did a quick interview with a male person around the protest in London after the SC judgement? Where the person being interviewed was performing their version of feminine voice, but when he was outraged that voice disappeared and a deep male voice protested the question.

It is not unusual, it requires a great deal of effort to maintain that unnatural pitch.

However, I find that there is always a timbre or tonality to a male person's voice, even after surgery and even after male puberty has been blocked.

Now that you mention it, that sounds familiar.

Do we really want our Speech and language therapists spending valuable time on this when they could be helping old people swallow safely, or young children access education through language development? I've heard a Tim try to use a ' feminine' voice. It just sounds like a parody.

My brother tried to change his voice by talking in high pitched tones and in a sympering way as if he was a silly teen.

That didn't work any better than using his normal voice. In fact it was one of the things I found most offensive about him trying to impersonate women. It revealed how he saw women more than his clothing - he sees us as airheaded and vacuous.

No, I don't think any of this should be NHS funded.

@Helleofabore I don't remember seeing one with such an obvious shift. The GameStop video is the only one I can think of where the guy verys abruptly sheds his female voice and persona (such as it is) and reverts to full male agro. Something that a woman could obviously never do.

Is the cartoon version of a woman isn’t it. However, I’ve caught myself doing it when i do a female voice before i think wtf. it’s so ingrained

I think RMW described on their blogspot about Becoming Moira (sorry can’t link as a thread that did was previously removed but it’s readily googleable) an operation to adjust vocal cords. Sounded like a very difficult and painful op which unfortunately didnt achieve the desired results.

So maybe even if people are brave enough to want to try, the results arent good enough to justify the risk/cost of surgery?

I’m staggered at the elective surgery choices that some make - I’m very risk averse myself and steer clear of even taking pills I don’t need!

I am looking for it OP. But here is the one caught talking to Nancy Mace

Brenda to Brian in a split second

Does anyone remember that bit in Tootsie when Dustin Hoffman is trying to hail a taxi? Very telling.

Wow!

It’s a shame they don’t look like women either!

One of the 'treatments' offered by the NHS for 'gender dysphoria' [lots of quotation marks around disputed terms!] is voice therapy:

Adults who think they may have gender dysphoria should be referred to a gender dysphoria clinic (GDC).
GDCs have a multidisciplinary team of healthcare professionals, who offer ongoing assessments, treatments, support and advice, including:

• psychological support, such as counselling
• cross-sex hormone therapy
• speech and language therapy (voice therapy) to help you sound more typical of your gender identity

Gender dysphoria - Treatment - NHS

I believe it is very difficult for anybody else to access NHS voice therapy.