Page 2 | Reddit Trans Drama

Magenta82 · 2025-07-14T12:34:23+00:00

Not sure if this was discussed at the time but I just read a summary of last month's falling out on r/trans. A transman posted about the issues facing ftm people and in particular sexual assault. The post was removed by a mtf mod and the OP was told they were being divisive and another mtf mod told the OP to "stop bitching". I know it's only petty reddit drama but I find it very telling that men who claim to be women and have special woman brains still manage to act like very male misogynists who work together to silence women.

teawamutu · 14/07/2025 15:50

Greyskybluesky · 14/07/2025 15:48

This reminds me of a trans poster who used to flutter by on here and demonstrate stereotypically male behaviour while at the same time saying they "wouldn't even know how to act male" because they'd apparently never been one. But the behaviour shone through. That person didn't even recognise it in themself.

Show quote history

Flutter by, buzz in...

FlirtsWithRhinos · 14/07/2025 16:00

Magenta82 · 14/07/2025 15:37

This is so sad

Show quote history

It is.

They will get there I think, even if they end up with everything a woman always was in reality being shifted under the label AFAB and everything a woman never was in reality getting the name "woman", and having a whole rerun of Feminism under the label AFABism to get back what they threw away.

Honestly I've been expecting it to happen for a while.

The big/gap problem for these trans masc AFABs is going to be realising that it's not as simple as The Transwomen Aren't Treating Us Fairly. I suspect there will be a fairly large dollop of I Was Thinking Of What Support You Need, Why Weren't You Realising That And Doing The Same For Me aka female socialisation.

That's going to be a huge headfuck for these AFABs because their entire belief system is based on not being like a girl, on having something innate that makes them different.

It's one thing to be angry that society imposes feminine expectations on you, it's quite another to realise that while you consciously believe your subconscious is male, your actual subconscious didn't get the memo and carried on following the female social script.

DeanElderberry · 14/07/2025 17:03

It is a little irritating.

Transwomen demonstrate their obsessive sexualised hatred of women by appropriating what they perceive out clothes and bodies to be, and by trying to deny us control over the spaces we inhabit; transmen demonstrate their obsessive self-hatred by mutilating and drugging their female bodies. Transmen are now claiming to be surprised that the transwomen know TM are female and think that therefore they should be available to service TW in every possible way from ego-tickling to sex.

Are these silly young women going to re-invent feminism 200 years on?

They might start by considering that what constitutes 'inferiority' and 'superiority' goes beyond physical size and strength.

And the whole pack of nitwits think the world should revolve around them because they are so special.

SopranoPipistrelle · 14/07/2025 17:03

FlirtsWithRhinos · 14/07/2025 16:00

It is.

They will get there I think, even if they end up with everything a woman always was in reality being shifted under the label AFAB and everything a woman never was in reality getting the name "woman", and having a whole rerun of Feminism under the label AFABism to get back what they threw away.

Honestly I've been expecting it to happen for a while.

The big/gap problem for these trans masc AFABs is going to be realising that it's not as simple as The Transwomen Aren't Treating Us Fairly. I suspect there will be a fairly large dollop of I Was Thinking Of What Support You Need, Why Weren't You Realising That And Doing The Same For Me aka female socialisation.

That's going to be a huge headfuck for these AFABs because their entire belief system is based on not being like a girl, on having something innate that makes them different.

It's one thing to be angry that society imposes feminine expectations on you, it's quite another to realise that while you consciously believe your subconscious is male, your actual subconscious didn't get the memo and carried on following the female social script.

Show quote history

It's one thing to be angry that society imposes feminine expectations on you, it's quite another to realise that while you consciously believe your subconscious is male, your actual subconscious didn't get the memo and carried on following the female social script.

Eliza Mondegreen from the Gender Hacked substack did her masters research on online trans communities (primarily Reddit I think), and she has observed how "feminine"/female socialised the dynamics are in the FTM subreddits.

See this post in particular
https://elizamondegreen.substack.com/p/la-vie-quotidienne-sur-rftm-a-place?utm_source=publication-search

It's a paid post so here's a free link https://archive.ph/6Da9U

From the post:

One of the things that always stands out to me is how distinctly, stereotypically, over-the-top feminine the interaction style is: no shower thought too small or silly to share, every accomplishment—no matter how trivial—celebrated, every slight lamented, and they bond over things like… hating your breasts, hating your period, cute boys (with ‘gender envy’ neatly replacing celebrity crushes), sharing selfies, and swapping fashion tips on how to minimize your hips.

In my experience, gender-critical spaces are full of unconventional women—women who are, ironically, far more unconventional than the women you find in FTM/transmasc communities on Reddit.

I’m not trying to be unempathetic. There’s always a reason why someone is drawn to the idea that they might be transgender and that reason is usually rooted in self-rejection and a painful sense of difference. Once that distress has attached itself to trans, however, absurdities sprout in every direction.

La vie quotidienne over at r/FTM: "A place for the guys"

Hera asked if I would write about the “ordinary” happenings on the subreddits I monitor, adding “I don’t know what that would be, or if it even exists but that’s the point.” And I aim to please—at least, you know, when I feel like it—so what follows is...

https://elizamondegreen.substack.com/p/la-vie-quotidienne-sur-rftm-a-place

MelOfTheRoses · 14/07/2025 17:11

Magenta82 · 14/07/2025 14:55

I've seen posts where transwomen tell transmen they have male privilege and in trans spaces they should shut up and allow the marginalised and vulnerable transwomen to speak.

I've been told it happens a lot in real life, especially in trans youth groups where men in their 20s bully girls in their teens.

That puts me in mind of the NUS trans conference, where transwomen were given free taxis because they are vulnerable and transmen had to get there under their own steam, because male privilege 🤦‍♀️

DeanElderberry · 14/07/2025 17:15

Sometimes I feel desperately sorry for transmen, sometimes I just think 'you made your bed, lie in it'. Or move back to the sex realist side of the fence and make a new bed.

Heggettypeg · 14/07/2025 17:47

MelOfTheRoses · 14/07/2025 17:11

That puts me in mind of the NUS trans conference, where transwomen were given free taxis because they are vulnerable and transmen had to get there under their own steam, because male privilege 🤦‍♀️

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How odd of them. What happened to the idea that trans people are vulnerable simply for being trans, because of transphobia?

DuesToTheDirt · 14/07/2025 17:52

DeanElderberry · 14/07/2025 17:15

Sometimes I feel desperately sorry for transmen, sometimes I just think 'you made your bed, lie in it'. Or move back to the sex realist side of the fence and make a new bed.

More and more I find myself thinking, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." I don't say it out loud as I know it's unsympathetic, but it's taking up residency in my brain.

WarriorN · 14/07/2025 17:58

Rhiface · 14/07/2025 14:30

It's just regular old misogyny in new packaging. Only men are allowed to have actual problems but if a woman talks about an issue its bitching. TIMs are the crèm de la crèm of misogynists so I can't say I'm surprised

course it is.

as it ever was!

SternJoyousBee · 14/07/2025 19:17

Thingybob · 14/07/2025 14:56

I've been reading the responses to the original Reddit post and amazingly some seem to have almost got there and joined up the dots.

"If society admitted that we were vulnerable, it would have to admit that AFAB anatomy puts us in a uniquely vulnerable position. That we are structurally made to be inferior by our biology combined with the behavior of all of society, and that no amount of testosterone or bottom surgery will fix that fact. If we didn’t go through male puberty, we have been permanently stunted relative to what would’ve happened if we had gone through male puberty. And even if we manage to get androgens during puberty, we still have female reproductive organs that are vulnerable in ways that male ones are not. We still face the potential loss of our autonomy through pregnancy, as well as other physical vulnerabilities of having those body parts.
Our existence highlights the uncomfortable fact that women and men aren’t equal, because when we try to be equal, we simply aren’t. In fact, we’re more screwed over than literally any other social group. The more we try to be equal, the more we are punished for it, and more we are exploited. And that highlights the very unpopular notion that women protect themselves by trading aesthetic performance of femininity and reproductive capacity for limited security. That there is no winning, as someone born into default womanhood.
Equal rights under the law should be equal rights to everything that men get. But that’s not what we’re getting. Instead, we’re being silenced, suppressed, and treated like women in all of the negative ways, while denied all of the positive things that are given to women… such as protection… in direct proportion to how much we insist that we are men. Calling ourselves men should not be treated as an invitation to be abused, erased, and silenced. The fact that it is highlights just how little privilege we have."

That is heartbreaking. This person acknowledges the biological reality but wanted to obtain ‘equality’ and in a space that ought to be supportive is finding that some males remain selfish fuckers even when T have special identities.

I want to scream at the damage this regressive ideology, which pretends to be so progressive, does to women and girls.

Brefugee · 14/07/2025 20:49

that blog is infuriating and heartbreaking in equal parts.

Who hasn't had those feelings about hating our periods? or "i need 2 strong boys to move the chairs"

ArabellaScott · 14/07/2025 20:56

MelOfTheRoses · 14/07/2025 17:11

That puts me in mind of the NUS trans conference, where transwomen were given free taxis because they are vulnerable and transmen had to get there under their own steam, because male privilege 🤦‍♀️

Show quote history

Or the transwoman who took the maternity leave, while the transman presumably had to struggle on without, despite having recently given birth.

MelOfTheRoses · 14/07/2025 21:48

ArabellaScott · 14/07/2025 20:56

Or the transwoman who took the maternity leave, while the transman presumably had to struggle on without, despite having recently given birth.

Show quote history

They would, wouldn't they 😬🤦‍♀️

Burntt · 14/07/2025 21:55

What can we do though?

We need to remember this has been mainstream and the fear of being transphobic will have shaped these young women in ways older women haven’t experienced. Im younger than some of the regular posters here but old enough I’d established my life before the boom in trans/nb. As a teen I was told feminism was done, we won, we have equality. That to be feminist now was redundant, man hating, uncool and unattractive. While simultaneously having the beauty standards and maid/mother/nurse role shoved down my throat as the only acceptable life choices for females. I couldn’t see that hypocrisy AT ALL. It’s only now as an adult looking back I see how harmful that was and how mainstream media and teen magazines etc all reinforced this as how I saw womanhood. You simply don’t have that complex understanding when a teenager those discussing it here generally have due to life experiences and age. Our brains continue to develop until we are 25! Even then it’s not until many of us are mothers we truly SEE the inequality and misogyny engrained into society.

It’s not a case of you made your bed so lay in it because for them by identifying out of being a woman that’s them trying to get out of sex oppression. Feminists are called Nazis don’t forget. To even consider listening to Nazi ideology with the view to join if we agree would be abhorrent. That’s what this generation has been told feminism is. They don’t quite get it because they are having to work it out for themselves! Dont forget many of them are autistic where such complex social understanding often comes much later.

When we roll our eyes and think of them as silly/whatever we just push them away. I’m anti “be kind” because it has been used to silence women and as a tool to take our rights. But I do wish I knew how to compassionately get these young women thinking and questioning. I think they do deserve kindness as this thread highlights they are still oppressed but have denied themselves female protections and community. it’s biological men who I don’t have the right to our emotional labour, not that anyone automatically has that right but I’m prepared to give that to women who have been misled worse than my own generation was.

usedtobeaylis · 14/07/2025 22:10

So many people who are 'pro-trans' only ever use trans men as a gotcha on using toilets, or to celebrate 'men' having babies. I hate that. I hate that so many women and girl adopt trans identities and that somewhere in their backstory is a desire to not be treated as a woman - but they can't escape it because men dominate any space they are in and the same old dynamics are perpetuated. I wish for so much more for them.

ArabellaScott · 14/07/2025 22:21

In my experience, gender-critical spaces are full of unconventional women—women who are, ironically, far more unconventional than the women you find in FTM/transmasc communities on Reddit.

We need to reclaim women being non conforming. I think (hope) that the stranglehold of porny stereotypes has shifted and softened just a tiny bit in the past couple of years.

ArabellaScott · 14/07/2025 22:23

Burntt · 14/07/2025 21:55

What can we do though?

We need to remember this has been mainstream and the fear of being transphobic will have shaped these young women in ways older women haven’t experienced. Im younger than some of the regular posters here but old enough I’d established my life before the boom in trans/nb. As a teen I was told feminism was done, we won, we have equality. That to be feminist now was redundant, man hating, uncool and unattractive. While simultaneously having the beauty standards and maid/mother/nurse role shoved down my throat as the only acceptable life choices for females. I couldn’t see that hypocrisy AT ALL. It’s only now as an adult looking back I see how harmful that was and how mainstream media and teen magazines etc all reinforced this as how I saw womanhood. You simply don’t have that complex understanding when a teenager those discussing it here generally have due to life experiences and age. Our brains continue to develop until we are 25! Even then it’s not until many of us are mothers we truly SEE the inequality and misogyny engrained into society.

It’s not a case of you made your bed so lay in it because for them by identifying out of being a woman that’s them trying to get out of sex oppression. Feminists are called Nazis don’t forget. To even consider listening to Nazi ideology with the view to join if we agree would be abhorrent. That’s what this generation has been told feminism is. They don’t quite get it because they are having to work it out for themselves! Dont forget many of them are autistic where such complex social understanding often comes much later.

When we roll our eyes and think of them as silly/whatever we just push them away. I’m anti “be kind” because it has been used to silence women and as a tool to take our rights. But I do wish I knew how to compassionately get these young women thinking and questioning. I think they do deserve kindness as this thread highlights they are still oppressed but have denied themselves female protections and community. it’s biological men who I don’t have the right to our emotional labour, not that anyone automatically has that right but I’m prepared to give that to women who have been misled worse than my own generation was.

Completely agree.

We were all young and daft at one point. And probably discounted the wisdom of our foremothers.

That to be feminist now was redundant, man hating, uncool and unattractive.

I think things probably haven't really changed all that much, tbh.

SopranoPipistrelle · 14/07/2025 22:50

ArabellaScott · 14/07/2025 22:23

Completely agree.

We were all young and daft at one point. And probably discounted the wisdom of our foremothers.

That to be feminist now was redundant, man hating, uncool and unattractive.

I think things probably haven't really changed all that much, tbh.

Show quote history

We were all young and daft at one point. And probably discounted the wisdom of our foremothers.

Absolutely, and being daft and sometimes making regrettable decisions is part and parcel of growing up, which is why we need adults to safeguard kids from silly decisions that could cause them harm. No doubt safeguarding fails happened for earlier generations as well - life was not all rosy - but the level of uninformed cheerleading for pediatric gender medicine, and the silencing of professionals who could see this disaster unfolding in real time is on another scale.

MyAmpleSheep · 14/07/2025 22:52

Thingybob · 14/07/2025 14:56

I've been reading the responses to the original Reddit post and amazingly some seem to have almost got there and joined up the dots.

"If society admitted that we were vulnerable, it would have to admit that AFAB anatomy puts us in a uniquely vulnerable position. That we are structurally made to be inferior by our biology combined with the behavior of all of society, and that no amount of testosterone or bottom surgery will fix that fact. If we didn’t go through male puberty, we have been permanently stunted relative to what would’ve happened if we had gone through male puberty. And even if we manage to get androgens during puberty, we still have female reproductive organs that are vulnerable in ways that male ones are not. We still face the potential loss of our autonomy through pregnancy, as well as other physical vulnerabilities of having those body parts.
Our existence highlights the uncomfortable fact that women and men aren’t equal, because when we try to be equal, we simply aren’t. In fact, we’re more screwed over than literally any other social group. The more we try to be equal, the more we are punished for it, and more we are exploited. And that highlights the very unpopular notion that women protect themselves by trading aesthetic performance of femininity and reproductive capacity for limited security. That there is no winning, as someone born into default womanhood.
Equal rights under the law should be equal rights to everything that men get. But that’s not what we’re getting. Instead, we’re being silenced, suppressed, and treated like women in all of the negative ways, while denied all of the positive things that are given to women… such as protection… in direct proportion to how much we insist that we are men. Calling ourselves men should not be treated as an invitation to be abused, erased, and silenced. The fact that it is highlights just how little privilege we have."

Almost, as you say. Just one tiny more step, and they'll be there!

Nchangeo · 14/07/2025 22:54

Surreal to watch.

It reminds me of my mother. She’s a true narcissist. Someone always has to be the target of her abuse and watching her switch is quite surreal.

Seems TW mod cabal have gotten bored of the GC/ normie womenz. Or maybe us them as we have moved on because we have ‘won’ the important battles for today.

So who does that leave to silence, bully, belittle and marginalise?

Oh. What a coincidence?!?

Colour me shocked and shooketh

Nchangeo · 14/07/2025 23:04

And to any FTM who read this from Reddit. We are here for you.

I assume you probably think we hate trans people. Such is the rumour.

It’s not true. Primarily we don’t like male entitlement, the patriarchy or misogyny.

We have much more in common than you might think and whether you believe me or not. I believe we fight the same fight ❤️

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2025 23:59

LeftieRightsHoarder · 14/07/2025 14:53

So a woman joining a group dominated by men raises the issue of sexual assault and is angrily shut down. She wants to discuss this important issue but is repeatedly stopped by aggressive men.

Is this in any way surprising? I feel for her, but sadly her fantasy of a friendly inclusive trans community is as unrealistic as the men’s fantasy of being women.

This.

WarriorN · 15/07/2025 07:07

Nchangeo · 14/07/2025 23:04

And to any FTM who read this from Reddit. We are here for you.

I assume you probably think we hate trans people. Such is the rumour.

It’s not true. Primarily we don’t like male entitlement, the patriarchy or misogyny.

We have much more in common than you might think and whether you believe me or not. I believe we fight the same fight ❤️

a lovely post; it’s really not about “hating” anyone.

its about making sure those who need certain things via law and medicine and society get the things they need - women do have very different needs to men. Simply because they’re women.

define a trans identified female as a man in law and medicine as they loose all those protections. In society it seems, according to what’s going on in that space online, the same old gender norms remain irrespective of certification, diagnosis and medication.

myplace · 15/07/2025 07:21

SopranoPipistrelle · 14/07/2025 17:03

It's one thing to be angry that society imposes feminine expectations on you, it's quite another to realise that while you consciously believe your subconscious is male, your actual subconscious didn't get the memo and carried on following the female social script.

Eliza Mondegreen from the Gender Hacked substack did her masters research on online trans communities (primarily Reddit I think), and she has observed how "feminine"/female socialised the dynamics are in the FTM subreddits.

See this post in particular
https://elizamondegreen.substack.com/p/la-vie-quotidienne-sur-rftm-a-place?utm_source=publication-search

It's a paid post so here's a free link https://archive.ph/6Da9U

From the post:

One of the things that always stands out to me is how distinctly, stereotypically, over-the-top feminine the interaction style is: no shower thought too small or silly to share, every accomplishment—no matter how trivial—celebrated, every slight lamented, and they bond over things like… hating your breasts, hating your period, cute boys (with ‘gender envy’ neatly replacing celebrity crushes), sharing selfies, and swapping fashion tips on how to minimize your hips.

In my experience, gender-critical spaces are full of unconventional women—women who are, ironically, far more unconventional than the women you find in FTM/transmasc communities on Reddit.

I’m not trying to be unempathetic. There’s always a reason why someone is drawn to the idea that they might be transgender and that reason is usually rooted in self-rejection and a painful sense of difference. Once that distress has attached itself to trans, however, absurdities sprout in every direction.

Show quote history

Brutal!

puffyisgood · 15/07/2025 07:31

TIM's absolutely hate it when women, including TIW, mention that being 'AFAB' makes you any different at all to a bloke, in any way.