Dd wants to start hormones

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Please can anyone point me in the direction of any reading or any valid points to put her off this?

Yes well she was into princesses when she was about 3 but soon after changed to just wanting to be colourful for years.
is studying IT and good at maths. Never interested in make up

Of course. It’s obvious from the OP’s posts that she cares about, and doesn’t reject, her daughter. But if your daughter was talking about jumping off a cliff and starting to walk towards the edge, you wouldn’t just give them a squeeze and tell them you’ll be there for them whatever happens.

Is she thinking that because she is good at 'boy subjects'? Sorry I don't like the term but it fits here.

Nice bit of misgendering there @BeeSouriante - I thought that was a hate crime?

The OP’s daughter is female and there has been no mention of her using non-sex based pronouns.

We have had many conversations about how you can be whatever you want and still be a woman. I have short hair, my husband does all the cooking and washing. She hasn’t grown up in a house of stereotypical roles.

We do use they and have done from about three years ago

I have no idea why this was deleted but the uk trans subreddit is full of users teaching other users how to DIY hormones. It is their go to message. You should be aware that this is very much an option she may take.

I honestly think that such girls, who don't like or conform to the on trend obsessions with fashion, hair and make-up ( Sephora etc) - a number of years ago would have identified themselves as goths or emo. That was certainly the case when i was teaching. I left teaching in 2010, and 'trans' simply was not a thing. Nobody had heard of it, and the 'trans child' had yet to be invented.

I have a granddaughter who is independent minded and doesn't conform to the 'girly' TikTok obsessions of many of her friends. She likes gaming and has non sterotypical interests. Fortunately she's younger than the daughter of the OP and has not been subject to the same type of social pressures. The whole 'trans' thing is waning now and younger people are moving on into new kinds of alternative space.

I would push it down the line rather than fight against it straight away.
She will do better in her degree without this disruption to her health, PBs and cross sex hormones can reduce IQ, so why make life harder for herself...

She'll find a job more easily, it's unfair but true that she'll find employment more easily as a woman than an obvious trans person, so it'd be better to get a job first and then explore changing.

The more life experience she gets the less binary the world will look

Reading up on the syptoms of vaginal atrophy might be useful.

This is useful thank you. I’m having a chat with her tomorrow and really want to have some things to dissuade her

This

And, if you think this will catch her interest, do some research with her about potential outcomes. What would she see as positive and why; what would she see as negative and why. Don’t let her shy away from the consequences, but explore the statistics - impact on mental health/suicide ideation, osteoporosis, vaginal atrophy, prolapse, hair loss, voice deepening & facial hair which aren’t reversible?. I’m sort of assuming the numbers will be more meaningful to her than other people’s stories?

It’s a bit out of the way but would discussing the doping of female athletes in East Germany possibly interest her? The health effect of taking testosterone were terrible for these girls and women. The good thing is it avoids talking about trans at all, just the female body, health and hormones. There’s an excellent documentary here www.pbs.org/video/secrets-of-the-dead-doping-for-gold-preview/

ypur daughter needs to be fully aware of the physical effects of testosterone on female genitalia.

it will cause cliteromegaly which may give her a great deal of pain. This will not go away if the testosterone is stopped. It will also cause vaginal dryness, with a rise in UTIs, so more pain. It could give rise to urinary and faecal incontinence, ie all the problems that come with the female menopause but 30 years too soon.Uterine atrophy can be so severe in time a hysterectomy may be required.. these changes will be life long.

this step she is considering in major and has the potential for huge, negative, life long consequences. It isn’t all cute transboys on you tube.

Yes I would try and persuade her to wait to at least 25 for anything medical.

Reiterate she can identify however she likes without medication - whether that's trans, non-binary or just a gender non-conforming female. I'd also reiterate that it's fine if she's straight, lesbian, bi/pan or anything else. But that she doesn't need to label herself or medicate herself.

Could show her some of the cool gender non-conforming pop/rock stars from years gone by (both male and female) and note that they didn't have a label and (presumably) weren't taking hormones.

How about suggesting Keira Bell's writings. A brave young women who detransitioned. Maybe her experience will resonate in some way with your daughter.

Keira Bell: My Story - by Keira Bell - Persuasion share.google/rb8mO2jC2Q4CG3Eqa

This ^^ And I’d add osteoporosis to that. I remember reading about a transman who was now in a large amount of pain from spinal problems.

You could also tactfully say that hormones and the like don’t make you ‘pass’ as the opposite sex. I was reading a news story which interested me today about a man who… [not writing the topic as not here to home in on that person] and there was a picture of them at the start of the article, complete with a beard. The first thing I thought was: That’s a woman. The article didn’t mention it at first, calling them a gay man, but later revealed they are indeed trans. People can almost always tell, and having some facial hair doesn’t change that.

So, they could carry on identifying as they do now but skip the hormones - and, crucially, the health problems.

Is there male pattern baldness in either side of your family? If so the chances are that your daughter will experience hair thinning at best, and balding at worst if taking testosterone. I don't think many women taking testosterone are prepared for this reality...it doesn't go with the image of masculinity they are aiming for.

I note that 'Lars' the transman on the recent series of 'I Kissed A Boy' wore a cap all of the time, even when in bed.....I suspect this may have had something to do with hair loss and a developing bald patch.

Apparently women ( Transmen) suffering hair loss often resort to a drug called Finasteride to help slow it down, but this drug has side effects ( inevitably): These side effects can include decreased libido, breast enlargement and tenderness, and changes in menstrual cycles. In some cases, women have also reported headaches, dizziness, and increased body hair growth.

https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/finasteride/side-effects-of-finasteride/

Is she happy at uni?

home for the long summer hols soon?

is she financially dependent on you op?

Some of the negative effects of testosterone can include:

Acne, weight gain, mood swings, bottom growth (the clitoris growing bigger), hair loss on the head, growth in body hair everywhere else as well as increased risk of gallstones, blood clots etc. The NHS site identifies the risks under the treatment for gender dysphoria.

Not very happy at uni, hasn’t made friends
finsncially dependant on me and home now for the holidays

I’m reading everything thank you all

Lots of reliable info here:

https://statsforgender.org

look under “hormones” or “testosterone”