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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transgender campaigners call for European rights body to report on UK

115 replies

BeeSouriante · 29/06/2025 08:28

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jun/28/transgender-campaigners-council-of-europe-report-on-uk

edit: The Council of Europe has previously been very critical of how the UK deals with its trans citizens, it will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.

Transgender campaigners call for European rights body to report on UK

Alliance of groups wants Council of Europe to investigate implementation of supreme court ruling on biological sex

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jun/28/transgender-campaigners-council-of-europe-report-on-uk

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 29/06/2025 20:12

RedToothBrush · 29/06/2025 20:10

We need to start saying that some activists are full on transcels.

Cos they actively do have a massive problem with women and aren't remotely interested in equality and principles of human rights. They are mens rights activists.

And I don’t even think that is referring to the transmaxxers?

RedToothBrush · 29/06/2025 20:58

Helleofabore · 29/06/2025 20:12

And I don’t even think that is referring to the transmaxxers?

Nope.

The transmaxxers are something else entirely.

Helleofabore · 29/06/2025 21:03

Exactly

BundleBoogie · 29/06/2025 21:15

I hope the Council of Europe do ‘investigate’. They will be reminded that women have rights too and men have no right to use women’s facilities.

We provide men’s or unisex facilities for male people. Take your pick.

NowYouSee · 29/06/2025 21:42

If I wanted is, as a matter of policy, to leave the ECHR I would be beyond thrilled to get the Council of Europe to send us a finger waggy proclamation saying we are breaching the ECHR by not allowing male lady feelz to trump biological sex in terms of who gets to use what facilities.

HelenaWaiting · 29/06/2025 23:58

BeeSouriante · 29/06/2025 08:28

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jun/28/transgender-campaigners-council-of-europe-report-on-uk

edit: The Council of Europe has previously been very critical of how the UK deals with its trans citizens, it will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.

Nothing will come of it. The Council of Europe cannot change or overturn UK law. And if the screamers who were going to appeal the UKSC decision could do so, they would have done it by now.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 30/06/2025 17:44

Shedmistress · 29/06/2025 09:33

I've asked you several times for your opinion on what it is about the male toilets, with their cubicles and urinals, and sinks, and towels or driers that you don't like. But you never respond. What else in these toilets would you need to enable you to use them?

Women?

Brainworm · 30/06/2025 17:54

RareGoalsVerge · 29/06/2025 16:43

P.s. and (hopefully) before you challenge it,, I did have a think about the use of the word "fantasy" above. I realise that to believers it isn't a fantasy, but all kinds of believers in all kinds of beliefs need to be ok with non-believers thinking that their beliefs are fantasy for any kind of multicultural pluralistic society to work. I would fight against any other state-mandated required beliefs just as much and in the same terms.

I think the fantasy is that other people will believe they really are women, and failing that, grant them something equivalent to an honorary degree whereby you aren’t qualified but are given the degree anyway.

Using this analogy, I think transwomen who had had top and bottom surgery believe this more than qualified them for a legit degree, rather than an honorary one.

Helleofabore · 30/06/2025 18:03

Brainworm · 30/06/2025 17:54

I think the fantasy is that other people will believe they really are women, and failing that, grant them something equivalent to an honorary degree whereby you aren’t qualified but are given the degree anyway.

Using this analogy, I think transwomen who had had top and bottom surgery believe this more than qualified them for a legit degree, rather than an honorary one.

"I think transwomen who had had top and bottom surgery believe this more than qualified them for a legit degree, rather than an honorary one."

They do. But also there are plenty of people who will give them either of those degrees because 'hard work' and 'commitment'. They do it unthinkingly.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 30/06/2025 18:50

I wonder if these transactivists have considered the possibility that the ECtHR may end up agreeing with the UK Supreme Court.
This could backfire on them quite spectacularly.
Might be better to leave it alone.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 30/06/2025 19:42

Helleofabore · 29/06/2025 14:36

Here is the letter the article refers to.

https://x.com/feministroar/status/1939272711546499146?s=46

To the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights and the Sub-Committee on Human Rights,

The undersigned are organisations which advocate for the human rights of trans people in the United Kingdom. We are writing to express our grave concerns about the developing situation regarding trans people's human rights in this country and to ask the Committee to take action.

Following a decision of the UK Supreme Court in April, the Equality and Human Rights Commission - the UK's National Human Rights Institution - has issued an interim update which encourages and in some cases mandates the exclusion of trans people from single-sex spaces and services, in violation of their human rights.' This has been followed by draft guidance which seeks to make such an approach statutory? The EHRC has made clear that it is not seeking input on its legal approach, only on how this approach is best communicated.?

The draft guidance, if it were to become law, would impose an obligation on employers and service providers to implement a bathroom ban on trans people using toilet and changing facilities in line with their acquired sex, instead requiring in practice that they use only gender neutral facilities. Such gender neutral facilities are frequently unavailable, and mandating their usage may require trans people to out themselves. The guidance would also prohibit associations for women and lesbians operating on a basis which would allow trans women to participate, even if the association desires to do so. This would also be true for men's organisations wanting to include trans men.

This draft guidance is being consulted on in the wider context following For Women Scotland, in which government ministers and public bodies have made comments about trans people's rights. The UK Minister for Women and Equalities has stated that trans people are required to use the toilets associated with their sex as recorded at birth, even where their change in sex is recognised by a Gender Recognition Certificate.' The National Police Chiefs' Council have announced that
male officers should now conduct intimate searches of trans women.'

In Christine Goodwin v UK, the European Court of Human Rights held that refusing to legally recognise the lived sex of trans people - and placing them into an 'intermediate zone' where they are not quite one sex or the other - was a violation of their right to respect for private life under Article 8 of the Convention. This protection was reaffirmed by the Court in the very recent decision of T.H. It is a core principle of the Convention that rights must be practical and effective, not theoretical and illusory.

We believe that in the UK, trans people are being returned to this intermediate zone, placing the State - once again - in violation of its positive obligations under the Convention. The legal recognition afforded by Gender Recognition Certificates is now illusory, and inapplicable to practical lived realities of trans people in this
country.

We ask that the Council of Europe take immediate action to protect the human rights of trans people in the UK. We ask that you conduct a report into the state of trans human rights in the UK. We note that the situation is urgent and without intervention, it seems likely to further deteriorate.

Kind regards,

Trans+ Solidarity Alliance
TransActual
Equality Network and Scottish Trans
Trans Safety Network
Feminist Gender Equality Network

So... a total misunderstanding of the term "guidance" there to start with.
As for the rest of it... 🙄

SternJoyousBee · 30/06/2025 19:46

BeeSouriante · 29/06/2025 08:41

Thank the gods for AI:

Transgender campaigners in the UK are urging the Council of Europe to investigate a recent Supreme Court ruling that defines "woman" and "sex" based on biological sex. This ruling, they argue, violates the European Convention on Human Rights by restricting transgender individuals from using facilities aligned with their gender identity. The Equality and Human Rights Commission's guidance following the ruling has further marginalized transgender rights. Campaigners warn that without intervention, conditions for transgender people in the UK could deteriorate, prompting their call for a report on the state of trans rights.

Edited

Do they go on to explain why gender identity should take precedence over sex? I don’t have a gender identity but I know my sex.

DuesToTheDirt · 30/06/2025 20:37

I can always spot your thread titles Bee.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2025 22:34

MistyGreenAndBlue · 30/06/2025 18:50

I wonder if these transactivists have considered the possibility that the ECtHR may end up agreeing with the UK Supreme Court.
This could backfire on them quite spectacularly.
Might be better to leave it alone.

Of course they haven't

That would involve thinking.

FlameoftheWest · 30/06/2025 22:46

BeeSouriante · 29/06/2025 08:45

Feel free to tell me to piss off and I will go - you asked me to be here and I responded ffs.

If you can't deal with a single trans person responding what does that say about your 'movement'?

No not at all . Please post away to your hearts content, if nothing else your posts amuse me.

As Einstein once said:

”Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

So please tippy type away on your keyboard ❤️

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